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Author Topic: surrogator  (Read 71103 times)
imp-cyl
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2008, 10:55:54 PM »

I will take and post pics when I get it built I'm sure it won't look as good as the original but as long as it does the job that's all I need. Thanks for your help, CharlieHorse.
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auburngsp
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« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2008, 09:55:45 AM »

how is the progress on the surrogator?  have you found an lp gas burner that will work? thanks,
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BQRQGB
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« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 11:01:14 PM »

I found a small propane brooder called infraconic. The I- 10 is a 10000 BTU brooder. The usual brooders seem like they would be to hot. The I-10 or I-17 are around $250.00. Has anyone else found any small brooders. Does the surrogator company make their own? 
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chewchew
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2008, 08:50:14 PM »

they have this one at walmart...they are on sale for around $25.00.

Technical Details..
8,000-14,000 Btu propane radiant heater
For outdoor use; heats up to 400 square feet
Variable output; provides up to 30 hours heat at high setting on 20-pound cylinder
Mounts directly to 5- to 20-pound propane cylinders (not included)
Adequate ventilation must be provided; 1-year limited warranty


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CharlieHorse
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2008, 09:10:32 PM »

they have this one at walmart...they are on sale for around $25.00.

That dude probably isn't thermostatically controlled is it? 


The usual brooders seem like they would be to hot.

That's what thermostats are for.

Wouldn't the commercially sold "surragator" be thermostatically controlled?  If not, you'd really be burning up some fuel wouldn't ya, if it ran around the clock?

The old floor furnaces had gas valves in them that didn't require any electricity to control them. They had a "millivolt" thermocouple that generated the electricicity from the pilot flame that was needed to operate the system.......including the thermostat.

The millivolt gas valves and thermocouples can still be purchased.  Looks to me like one of these LP gas valves in conjunction with a radiant heater similar to the one above would be what a fella would need. Of course the millivolt gas valve isn't cheap and the thermocouples where about $60-70, but I've seen them last well over 50 years.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 09:17:58 PM by CharlieHorse » Logged

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BQRQGB
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2008, 11:07:02 PM »

I built 2. One with the paropane heater mentioned above. I went to a plumbing outfit and took the guts out of an propane water heater. Remove the burner and place the Mr. Heater on top. I used the pilot and thermocouple  to contol the burner. I used a GQF thermometer to set my temperature by. The cost of propane made me go to plan B.

Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element.
PVC and nipple waterers.
55 gallon drom with facet to supply water.
55 gallon drum with 3 inch feeder tube to supply feed.
The deep cycle and one solar panel works well in TX. You may need 2 panels in colder weather.
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CharlieHorse
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2008, 11:51:52 PM »

Quote
Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element

Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2008, 12:16:33 AM »

Quote
Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element

Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?


  No.
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chewchew
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2008, 07:47:31 PM »

If you are going to run something like that... I wouldn’t invert.  When inverting there is a very large amount of wasted energy... Look into a dc powered heating element. I would think up of a better battery set up too... I would stay away from car batteries. But just my input. :angel:
sammy
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CharlieHorse
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2008, 09:07:07 PM »

How much heat can ya get off of 100watt 12 volt bulbs?  I used to use them in a trouble light that had alligator clips that clipped onto a battery.  They look just like a 110v bulb with the same base (medium).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2008, 09:17:45 PM by CharlieHorse » Logged

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chewchew
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2008, 11:12:43 PM »

I would use a set up with nichrome wire. nichrome wire is the wire used in toaster ovens. You can run Ac or Dc and it will work just fine. I can’t see light holding up, with Dc...  A lot of heating elements, and other thing that pug into the wall(run off Ac) have inverters so they work off Dc. look into toaster ovens, r something a little bigger like a small pizza oven or something. This has me thinking now... j41
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CharlieHorse
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2008, 11:26:09 PM »

Quote
This has me thinking now...

uh-oh!!

Don't burn the place down whatever you do!   :-|

The 100w 12vdc bulbs I previously mentioned where tougher than I'll get out, and lasted forever it seemed.  You be sure to let us know if you get anything cooked up, with pictures of course.
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 12:20:01 AM »

Quote
Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element

Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?


  No.

  Sorry, I planned to come back, as soon as I did the math.  Ran out of toes.

  15 amp charger will keep up for 11 hours, if you have 12 hours of sun, and charger is 100% as claimed.  In 7-10 days, battery would be flat.  That is assuming heater is 200 watt, and on half of the time.  Switching battery with fully charged every week would about keep up, if everything went as planned.  When has that happened?  Two cloudy days could kill your chicks.  Warm enough weather, and you might make it.

  With extreme insulation you might do OK.  Most energy lost to conversion turns to heat, putting the inverter inside brooder would help.  There are some pretty efficient inverters available.  I know a guy who uses them.  $700-$800 for 2000 watt continuous duty.  I assume same quality is available in 500 watt size for about half price.  I wouldn't count on cheap brands.

  100 watt 12 volt bulb (incandescent) should produce about same heat/light as 100 watt 120 V AC.  GQF element should be same wattage, regardless of voltage (I may be missing something).  You may not have enough force behind it with 12.  Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw  (remember Horshack on welcome back Kotter)  12 volt ceramic heaters to pre heat cars on cold mornings.   Wal-Mart  I remember thinking "That's cheap, but I don't need one".

  I'd build the first one "horse high, @$$ tight, and bull strong".  Like the first Amana Radar Ranges.  They had a magnetron that would fry a woolly Mammoth.  We designed DC refrigerator units in '69-'71 for ice cream vending trucks.  Two prototypes were still running as of 2003.

  Use at least 45 amps of solar panels, you will then have 270 watt capacity on 12 hours daylight.  Two true deep cycle batteries (connected in series, not parrelell).  Inverter (if you use one) inside the brooder.  With the brain I'm using, now, that should give you 4.5 days of continuous operation with no sunlight, assuming 200 watt draw.  But that sounds preposterous (so did walking on the moon).  Figuring escape velocity, thrust, and trajectory with a slide rule?  Sure you did, uh huh!

  Build it!  Run it with solar panels, and thermostat disconnected (full on) and check remaining voltage continually.  An amp meter would help a lot.  If voltage drop is less than .20 volts per hour average (rate will accelerate) you will make it.  If drop rate is higher, connect thermostat, and set temperature at 99F.  With full charged (slow charge) battery, start unit at sundown.  Check, and record voltage when possible, but especially right at sun up.  If voltage drop averages less than .1 volt per hour, you're in great shape!  At .1-.2 volts per hour, you're OK.  This test should be done on fairly cool day, or with main unit (not panels) in the shade.

  Connect solar panel at sun up.  Check voltage hourly.  Now is when things can get really subjective, so record sun conditions, and ambient temperature, so you can compare varied days.  On a sunny day, with panels pointed properly, you should return to 13.75 volts by noon. or shortly after.  Create a partly cloudy day, using sunshade (63%, or darker).  If on partly cloudy day, you are at full charge at sunset, you're on your way.  If you reach full charge by noon, you're doing great!  If you return to full charge on a cloudy day before sundown, put some birds in it!  If you get two or three cloudy days in a row, or sudden temperature drops go check on it.  Take jumper cables, or generator/charger.

  Once you've been through several bad times, weather wise, with excellent results, you can try to engineer your creation down to more affordable proportions for the next one.

  Use caution, and check my figures with charts, or someone with recent experience.  I'm faltering a bit.  Can't even call back BTU conversion, or electrical horsepower (I think 720 watts, but not sure).  200 watts would be enough heat in a barn.  Outdoors, in the wind?  Too many variables for me to calculate.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 12:33:17 AM by wildergamebirds » Logged

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CharlieHorse
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 12:44:02 AM »

 ::)

I'm impressed!   Not many people even know what a slide rule is. My grandfather could run one of those babies like a calculator.

I'd think that the ambient temperature, as you mentioned would be a huge factor in the longevity of the batteries holding up without a monsterous expensive solar panel?

I'm not in need of any sort of remote brooder heating system, but sure would like to get some self-sustained lighting back in my electric-less goat barn.  One of the biggest problems I seen was the amount of cash that it takes to buy a decent good sized solar panel and the batteries.
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goldstar76
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2008, 04:39:24 PM »

 I'm going to start to build a surrogator soon. Has anyone come up with a way to build the gas heating system?
If so I would love to see some pictures and your spec. Thanks
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