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BrittguyI have to disagree with your assesment of american field dogs.Yes they are the field trial people but this is the only way you can gauge if you are just getting a pure bred dog or if it is from champion stock.Other than say NSTRA, which only point pen raised birds, some people want a dog that can work "wild" birds, this takes a dog of a little more caliber than a NSTRA dog as wild birds get smart, thats how they survive.You can get an American Field dog known as FDSB(Field Dog Stud Book)and control range in your training.Here in Michigan we have the Cover Dog trials. cover dogs hunt ruffed grouse, wild ruffed grouse the hardest bird for a bird dog to hunt and it takes a special dog to get good at grouse hunting.Ruffed Grouse are hard to raise and very few people are able to get these birds to reproduce in captivity.Nothing against a guy that wants to get a couple good hunting dogs together for some pups but that is just what you will get. If you have a trial dog as long as it has "wins" and looking at a pedigree, you can look at the history & see champions, hall of fame dogs, etc & just knowing this is your blood line, your chances of getting a good dog are mush better.Otherwise all you will be able to do is look at the parents of the hunting dogs, possibly see them run and hope some of this is passed on to the pups.Besides I have english setters, when they trial, sure they range some but when we hunt they are rarely ever out of my sight and they are close, they know what we are doing and sense it. It is in the training and in the intelligence of the dog.JMT