Good In Close Hunting Dog !!!!

[MaDHaTTer]

What is the best hunting dog for up close say 50ft no more than 75ft
for hunting Quail or pheasants
thanks

[duck nutt]

i'd say springer spaniel...but check around

[twincyn]

How a simple question can be so tough to answer.

First, you must decide what kind of dog do you want, keeping in mind this will be your family pet, your buddy, and of course your hunting dog.

I grew up with Spaniels, and love the breed.  I broke stride and picked up an English Setter.  Deciding on an English Setter started out researching all the breeds on the  net, looking at temperments, ect...

it came down to 2 breeds I was interested in.  A French Brittney, or an English Setter.  I then chose a few breeders based on bloodline and checked them out looking at the set up, checked out the dogs, had the owner run a few in the field, and just looked the adult dogs over. I never did make it to any French Brittney breeders, prices were to rich for my blood.

getting late, so didn't proof read before sending.  ignore the spelling


Enjoy your research as thats half the fun of picking up a new pup

 

good luck, and enjoy your research

[britguy33]

I would look for a dog with imported parents. French Brittany, German Shorthair, Brittish Lab.....etc...

Stay away from American field trial bred dogs. These are trained and bred to range.
European dogs are trialed at close range,and graded on multiple species in a trial. These dogs seem to be closer working dogs.It is bred into them just as American field trial dogs are bred to range far and go fast.  

I have a 1/2 french 1/2 american bred brit who circles back at 50 yards in a hunting situation. In close cover like a heavily foilaged woods he will only get 20 feet. Likes to stay in sight of me. My chocolate has some chessie in her and she won't get 15 yards away from me.  

Other dogs can be worked close but these will naturaly. A good e-collar will put the brakes on just about any type of dog.

Just my $.02  Good luck.
french brit web site
http://www.french-brittany.org/
American Brittany club
http://clubs.akc.org/brit/

[britguy33]

forgot to add this

Lewellen Setters(specific type of english setter) are also close working dogs, I have seen english setters work close and also seen those that range farther than our former pointer.

lewellen info
http://www.straightcreek.com/trained.html

[twincyn]

Should add this also.  

the English Setter I have is a very close working dog.  In the Woods, hunting Ruff Grouse she now works very slow and careful.

Fields she will range 30-50 feet out.

Training is a must when working on range.

helps even more when your dog pickes up and learns from its mistakes, (getting to close on point and flushing the bird)

[MaDHaTTer]

I was thinking of one that would point I guess that I should of added that to the first post !
But I didn't  want a dog that would get out to far from me .
Thanks

[drwink]

Brittguy
I have to disagree with your assesment of american field dogs.
Yes they are the field trial people but this is the only way you can gauge if you are just getting a pure bred dog or if it is from champion stock.
Other than say NSTRA, which only point pen raised birds, some people want a dog that can work "wild" birds, this takes a dog of a little more caliber than a NSTRA dog as wild birds get smart, thats how they survive.
You can get an American Field dog known as FDSB(Field Dog Stud Book)
and control range in your training.
Here in Michigan we have the Cover Dog trials. cover dogs hunt ruffed grouse, wild ruffed grouse the hardest bird for a bird dog to hunt and it takes a special dog to get good at grouse hunting.
Ruffed Grouse are hard to raise and very few people are able to get these birds to reproduce in captivity.
Nothing against a guy that wants to get a couple good hunting dogs together for some pups but that is just what you will get. If you have a trial dog as long as it has "wins" and looking at a pedigree, you can look at the history & see champions, hall of fame dogs, etc & just knowing this is your blood line, your chances of getting a good dog are mush better.
Otherwise all you will be able to do is look at the parents of the hunting dogs, possibly see them run and hope some of this is passed on to the pups.
Besides I have english setters, when they trial, sure they range some but when we hunt they are rarely ever out of my sight and they are close, they know what we are doing and sense it. It is in the training and in the intelligence of the dog.

JMT

[MaDHaTTer]

Boy ,
I didn't know that getting a hunting dog was so tuff !

[britguy33]

Brittguy
I have to disagree with your assesment of american field dogs.
Yes they are the field trial people but this is the only way you can gauge if you are just getting a pure bred dog or if it is from champion stock.
Other than say NSTRA, which only point pen raised birds, some people want a dog that can work "wild" birds, this takes a dog of a little more caliber than a NSTRA dog as wild birds get smart, thats how they survive.
You can get an American Field dog known as FDSB(Field Dog Stud Book)
and control range in your training.
Here in Michigan we have the Cover Dog trials. cover dogs hunt ruffed grouse, wild ruffed grouse the hardest bird for a bird dog to hunt and it takes a special dog to get good at grouse hunting.
Ruffed Grouse are hard to raise and very few people are able to get these birds to reproduce in captivity.
Nothing against a guy that wants to get a couple good hunting dogs together for some pups but that is just what you will get. If you have a trial dog as long as it has "wins" and looking at a pedigree, you can look at the history & see champions, hall of fame dogs, etc & just knowing this is your blood line, your chances of getting a good dog are mush better.
Otherwise all you will be able to do is look at the parents of the hunting dogs, possibly see them run and hope some of this is passed on to the pups.
Besides I have english setters, when they trial, sure they range some but when we hunt they are rarely ever out of my sight and they are close, they know what we are doing and sense it. It is in the training and in the intelligence of the dog.

JMT

drwink... Like I put in my first response My 2 cents worth. Take it or leave it. American field trials are timed events. Dogs need to cover as much ground as possible in the shortest amount of time. I am not against them. In fact I plan to trial some dogs in the future. My father and Bro-in-law hunt dogs with blood rich in NSTRA wins. My dog has an outstanding pedigree on his moms side but the father has european blood. For the specific post I recommended an import. Sorry I offended you.
I also included that other dogs will hunt close but the ones I described will do it naturally. Just my opinion and from what I have seen.
You are right about the training and intelegence. If one trains a dog to hunt close and does not let it range as a pup it will be more likely to hunt close. E-collars help with this.
Mad hatter asked a question about the closest working dogs. And I didn't want to just defend my favorite dog, just give him some ideas. Sorry to offend you but I have just hunted with  many setters that are stubborn no matter how they were trained. Also hunted with some that were verry cooperative. These were on e-collars so I don't know their natural temperment. Again I am sorry you were so offended by my response. Mad hatter I hope I may have helped you find your close working dog. And yes the FDSB book is excellent for finding pedigree and wins. All NSTRA dogs must be registered with them.
Again my $.02

[drwink]

Brittguy
No offense taken, just my thoughts on this and believe I didn't think like this till I really got into it heavy.
I have 2 GSP's and one ES, and another ES pup coming next month. Actually my dogs brought me to this board as I wanted to make them love me more by raising some birds to train with.
Now my oldest GSP ranges pretty far and she will be 13 this year and her hunting days are done. The other, he will stay very close & sometimes I have to actually tell him to "git" to get out farther but does depend on weather we are in a field or in the woods. He ranges better in a field, and doesn't want to loose sight of me.
Now my 4 year old setter, is the one in the previous post. My new pup will be trained the same way as if I am hunting I want a dog that hunts fairly close, is fast & covers some ground and able to lock up on point when scenting a bird at 100mph.
What ever works for one dosen't always work for someone else, whatever breed you choose, you are right. As none of us would be feeding them.

[theweave]

I've got two English Setters and one is a big ranger and the other hunts closer.  They compliment each other which make them a good combo.  The male ranges out farther and has the better nose and is better on the covey point.  the female hunts closer and is killer on singles and finding dead birds.
I used to raise beagles and had to have a dog that could run point and keep the pace up, another dog with great nose for figuring out turns and another slower paced dog for keeping rest of pack in line on a lose.  That kind of carried over to my bird dogs.
i think any breed can be trained to hunt close.  I worked my female closer as a puppy since I already had a big running dog.

[birdinwithblue]

i also have  a english setter . i'v had pointer for years it takes alot of work to make them hunt close . then i got Blue a english setter needless to say hardly no work at all to keep him close . teaching a dog to range out is easyer than teaching one to stay close . and after a long day it's nice to tell your dog to hunt out . thats less steps for your tiered legs .they have very good noises . Blue has only flushed two coveys once at 7 months and once in his first full season .  

[gunner]

I also respectfully disagree with Brittguy33 to his suggestion for having to look for imported blood to find one that handles pheasant and quail.
Long time knowledgeable and experienced hunters of these two gamebird species have looked to American-bred pointing breeds to handle the game found and hunted here for over a century and the good breeding continues of these animals.
Pups from litters of the biggest running horseback dogs in the country are found being hunted and trialed on foot in the cover dog trials on grouse and woodcock, to NSTRA, NBA, ABHA. USC, and all the other competitions  that show foot hunting dogs.
All the  foot hunting plantation dogs of the midsouth and Dixie will trace to North American bred, trial tested animals.
The chuckar dogs of the NW and quail hunters of the big leases of Texas and Oklahoma include NA bred dogs.
A few breeders promote Llewellins as the kind of dog Grandpa used to hunt, but as with the other dogs mentioned above, there are trials for Llewellins as well, foot and horseback. Matter of fact before fanciers of the strain named the animal "Llewellin" , the strain was known as "The Field Trial Setter."
Early nurturing, experience on the birds to be hunted, opportunities to handle these birds in the cover and terrain they're to be hunted on, and good basic training by someone knowledgeable in the handling of pointing dogs would be suggested.
But then again, it's human nature to believe that grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. JMHO

[britguy33]

I go back to my origonal post "Other dogs can be worked close but these will naturaly. A good e-collar will put the brakes on just about any type of dog."

Logicaly one would have better luck ending up with a 50 foot -75 foot range dog by getting one bred for that.

I really didn't mean to pee in your rice crispies but dogs bred for short range will produce offspring for short range. Field trial breeding will produce a dog that has a want and drive to range and run hard. These dogs will hold point all day long when properly trained. But this will be well outside of the 50-75 ft mark.

I was not dogging american bred dogs. I am a huge fan. He didn't ask what is a good dog  to break for close range hunting.

Question? Do you use a hammer to change a light bulb? A flyswater to stir soup? There is something to be said about using the right tool for the right job. There is also something to be said about finding the right breeding for your hunting style.

And sorry but comparing foot trialing to 50-75 feet range is absurd. 50-75 foot ranging dog had better have a handler willing to run pretty fast to get the dog to cover the same ground as the other dogs or it won't get past the first day in most trials.

Perhaps you should take a second look at the origonal post and you will see I am just giving an opinion from experience on 50-75ft close ranging dogs. I had no intention to and never will talk bad about the performance of american bred field trial dogs. It just doesn't sound like MAD HATTER plans to trial his dog. Just leisurely hunt some fence rows and woods. My brit won't get out of eye contact in dense woods. But opens up more on a fence row. I didn't train him to do this he just does it naturally.

I hate having to defend my statements on here just because someone doesn't read the origonal post before hopping on his soapbox. If you have a problem with some thing I say PM me and stop littering MAD HATTERS post with this garbage. Thank you.