killer acorns ??

[birddog]

about two weeks  ago I moved my bobwhite quail pen to the other side of the yard  and the next morning I found one dead. no visible problems, young birds all healthy. I figured he got spooked and crashed into the top of the pen. but two days later, two more dead. then I realized I had relocated the pen under a large oak tree. and there are a lot of acorns in the pen. I covered the roof with a tarp and now after about a week  no more casualties  what do you think. could they have been taken out by an acorn? or  just coincidence

[glenn-bob]

could they have been taken out by an acorn? or  just coincidence

   Uh huh.

  I would bet on simple stress.  But, i know green acorns will founder a horse  Wild Quail eat acorns, from black jack oak, here.  but maybe not this early, and have lots of other food sources to mix in.

  Not much help, maybe but all I know

[birddog]

no I,m talking about falling acorns bopping them in the head. I don,t see any signs of them trying to eat them. and there are a lot of acorns this year every time the wind blows everything in range gets pelted.

[glenn-bob]

  With a really tall tree, and really heavy acorns, maybe.  Then, if it hit the net as it went through the hole, velocity would drop way off, and the bird would have to have it's head in just the right place.

  I think were back to stress.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

no I,m talking about falling acorns bopping them in the head. I don,t see any signs of them trying to eat them. and there are a lot of acorns this year every time the wind blows everything in range gets pelted.

 j41, Take the dead bird to a radiologist and have an x-ray done, or skin the birds head and check for any blunt force tramma.

Actually, depending on the hole size of the topflight netting you have, I would think that the falling acorns would have slowed down prior to hitting the ground in the pen.

Now if you were talking about either Buckeye's or Black Walnuts falling, and the possibility of taking the birds out, yes Otherwise, I think it is stress as well. Did you give them any electrolites when you made the move?

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[birddog]

no walnuts here and if  by buckeyes  you mean chestnuts they died off around here years ago. the top of the pen is 1 inch chicken wire so with the quantity of acorns that are falling I would imagine a lot clear the wire.  these things fall on the cars in the driveway and sound like someone threw a rock at it. I have never seen anything like it. should be good for the deer   no electrolites after the move the pen is raised and on wheels and I only moved it about 75 feet across the yard so that shouldn't,t have been too bad but  there has been a lot more activity around here lately . combonation of all could be stressfull. medicated water coming up. still no more deaths any how. I think I am getting the hang of it now. hatched 50 eggs late spring lost these  3 birds I,l take that.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

no walnuts here and if  by buckeyes  you mean chestnuts they died off around here years ago. the top of the pen is 1 inch chicken wire so with the quantity of acorns that are falling I would imagine a lot clear the wire.  these things fall on the cars in the driveway and sound like someone threw a rock at it. I have never seen anything like it. should be good for the deer   no electrolites after the move the pen is raised and on wheels and I only moved it about 75 feet across the yard so that shouldn't,t have been too bad but  there has been a lot more activity around here lately . combonation of all could be stressfull. medicated water coming up. still no more deaths any how. I think I am getting the hang of it now. hatched 50 eggs late spring lost these  3 birds I,l take that.

Buckeyes and Chestnuts two different types of nut.

American chestnut you can eat. Buckeye is a no-no. I was told that one half of the Buckeye is poisonous, while the other half is edible. The only animal that can differentiate this is the grey squirrel, so they say.

I think CharlieHorse would know more on this.

Anyway, glad to hear that no more losses have occured.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[Jake Levi]

My guess is that acorns could have dropped  on the pen and made a rustling noise which could have spooked the bird(s).

I dont know how a Bobwhite could have opened an acorn.

[CharlieHorse]

Buckeyes and Chestnuts two different types of nut.

LOL!  Kinda like Pheasant Hollow and I? 

Pheasant hollow is correct on the buckeye.

I dont know how a Bobwhite could have opened an acorn.

That would depend on the acorn, depending on your location and variety of oaks. Most all acorns would be too hard.  But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn that the birds could easily eat. Although I can't imagine them hurting the birds even if they did eat a few.  I have a few of these trees in my yard and the deer absolutely love them. They will sprout roots (about 4-8" long) soon after falling to the ground in the fall, while most nuts have to be stratified in order to grow.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

CharlieHorse,

   If you are going to use Big words like "stratified," please keep in mind that the members here are birdie. If you are going to use Botanical Terms, list the source, or explain the methods of such procedures.

That would depend on the acorn, depending on your location and variety of oaks. Most all acorns would be too hard.  But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn that the birds could easily eat. Although I can't imagine them hurting the birds even if they did eat a few.  I have a few of these trees in my yard and the deer absolutely love them. They will sprout roots (about 4-8" long) soon after falling to the ground in the fall, while most nuts have to be stratified in order to grow. LOL!  Kinda like Pheasant Hollow and I?

For those that do not understand the term stratification.

What is stratification? Stratification is artificially overcoming a seed's dormancy by placing it in layers of moisture-retaining media (paper towel, potting soil, etc.) and keeping it under generally cool and moist conditions for a period of time. This will simulate winter conditions, according to the Garden Web Glossary of Botanical Terms (http://www.gardenweb.com).

This paragraph has been copied from: http://www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/articles/adams/2002/stratification_of_seeds.htm

Steve j41
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[CharlieHorse]

My guess is that acorns could have dropped  on the pen and made a rustling noise which could have spooked the bird(s).

That's a good guess.  Those things can scare the livin'  ____ out of ya, especially on a metal roof. 

There's so many walnuts this year, it sounds like bricks hitting the ground out in the woods.

or explain the methods of such procedures.

   I figured that's what the internet was for?     There's a dozen ways of doing it, and the type of seed/nut that you're working with changes how the procedure should be done.  One can even use sandpaper (break moisture barrier) to stratify some seeds.  As I had mentioned in another thread a few months ago, I had collected thistle seed from the prior year and then planted it this spring, then when nothing came up.............DUH!!.... I had to make myself my own sign........!

[birddog]

  But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn


[/quote]

 Charliehorse  I have never heard of  a Chestnut oak. do you have a picture or link ? our acorns are about quarter size at the big end.  the chestnuts as I remember were light brown with a dark brown center. (Buckeye)?? and were roasted and eaten.  it has been so long since I have seen a chestnut tree that I almost forgot what they looked like. the street that I grew up on was lined both sides with chestnut trees and we used to have chestnut fights  it was best in the spring when the nuts weren't ripe , the nut was inside a green casing that had spikes all over it. the spikes were soft until the nuts ripened then they would harden and were like a miniature mace we were nasty little brats

[CharlieHorse]

our acorns are about quarter size at the big end.

With or without the "hat"?   If it's that big without the "hat", then that would be the biggest acorn I ever heard tell of.  Do you know what kind of oak tree that it is?

 The leaves on a Chestnut Oak don't resemble the everyday oak tree (red, white, black oaks), if a person didn't know what it was, they may not realize it is an oak.

I don't know that the American chestnut exists anywhere?  I'll have to refresh my memmory on them.

Look here:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/forestry/trees/oak_chestnut/tabid/5391/Default.aspx

http://www.radfordpl.org/wildwood/today/Plant_articles/Chestnut_Oak.htm

http://ostermiller.org/tree/chestnutoak.html

we were nasty little brats

Fresh horse turds are good for fights too!      We throw some around here every once in a while.  Wildergamebirds and Reeves are the best at throwing the stuff around.    Slider's not too bad, but he tends to get some on him.

 

[Jake Levi]

There is a small remnant of American Chestnuts that is at least partially resistant to tbe blight, there are isolated pockets of them around the former range,  but increasing.

NYS has a few around, my home in upstate NY has a few, I have seen some up to 8-10" in dia. Some above that start to show symptoms of the blight but by then they have started bearing nuts.  Each generation seems to get bigger before they succumb to the blight. Right now there are some 20-30 year old trees, they start bearing around 15-20 years old.
 
A long ways yet from the old giants of earlier years.

There is also a national org that is sponsoring growing of resistant strains, and also a hybrid of an oriental chestnut that is resistant for yard and urban planting.  So the Chestnut isnot extinct, but struggling.  There was a nursery near Rochester, NY that was growing the resistant one and the hybrids. 

[birddog]

the losses resume. losing 1 or 2 per day seems to be at night. I noticed they are huddling together lately instead of doing their  own thing as before. they have plenty of cover inside the pen. they have been outside for the last few months . all I can think of is that its getting cold too fast we have had a couple good frosts lately.