Website Main Page
Forum Main Page

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 01, 2020, 04:49:39 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search

Thank you for making us one of the highest ranking gamebird sites on the internet!
42418 Posts in 6015 Topics by 2375 Members
Latest Member: jg102
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  That Quail Place Forum
|-+  Raising Gamebirds
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  Diatomaceous Earth (DE)
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Diatomaceous Earth (DE)  (Read 14992 times)
gsc
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 30
Offline Offline

Posts: 246

« on: June 14, 2006, 01:06:25 PM »

Has any one ever used Diatomaceous Earth with quail or other gamebirds?  I know there are folks who use it with domestic poultry and swear by it.
Logged
gp
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 6
Offline Offline

Posts: 209

« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2006, 01:54:04 PM »

I'm not sure what your question is but yes it is safe to use by animals and it does kill ants and other insects.
Logged
gp
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 6
Offline Offline

Posts: 209

« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2006, 02:00:22 PM »

OH, yea I use it by my quail and animals (dogs, horses) with no problems.
Logged
gsc
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 30
Offline Offline

Posts: 246

« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2006, 02:15:07 PM »

I have read about people using it as a dust bath for birds to clean external bugs and they also add to feed to clean out internal bugs.  I was wondering if any one on the forum has used it.

Diatomaceous earth is made up of the cell walls of diatoms which are one celled blue-green algae.  The thing that is unique is that instead of being made of cellulose as most plants, this one is made from glass.  The cell wall is constructed like a petri dish with two halves that fit together.  they also have extremely small holes that help provide excellent filtration so it is used in the water filter industry.  Being made of glass, when they break, the microscopic knife edges that result will cut small bugs to bits and that is how it kills them  This includes internal worms and other critters.  They claim it will cut things as small as a virus.  With this comes the benefits of better use of feed, better growth and less smell in the feces.  Being siliceous, it can cause lung problems including cancer so you need to use caution when handling the stuff, but you can eat it and get the same benefits.  I was just curious if any one has experience with it.  I've been thinking about giving it a try.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 02:17:24 PM by gsc » Logged
gp
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 6
Offline Offline

Posts: 209

« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2006, 07:51:41 PM »

I have never gave it to my quail but I know of people that give it to there animals as a wormer.
Logged
Reeves
Expert Contributor
Expert Member
******

Karma: 151
Offline Offline

Posts: 3269


« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2006, 08:21:54 PM »

You couldn't pay me to use it.....
Logged
gsc
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 30
Offline Offline

Posts: 246

« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 09:33:39 AM »

You couldn't pay me to use it.....

Care to elaborate?
Logged
Reeves
Expert Contributor
Expert Member
******

Karma: 151
Offline Offline

Posts: 3269


« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2006, 10:01:35 AM »

I went and searched another forum where a huge discussion took place on this topic. Many links with studies on DE were in it. Couldn't find it.
The long and short of it is some like, but the studies done on the stuff makes one think about using "broken glass" to cure anything.
Also there are many other products out there that do a better and safer job.

I know one Pheasant breeder that has done a two year study of his own. Although some "bugs" were controled, they did not clean out the birds. He had to use a wormer to do the job properly. He ended up not using it anymore, as it was an added cost & was not doing the job.

And think about it. If DE will cause the death of a thousand cuts, what do you think it is doing to the soft tissues of the bird ? Wonder how much scar tissue is formed by the stuff , over time ?

Not to mention the cancer issue.......
Logged
gsc
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 30
Offline Offline

Posts: 246

« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2006, 07:48:37 PM »

Thanks for the insight.
Logged
Reeves
Expert Contributor
Expert Member
******

Karma: 151
Offline Offline

Posts: 3269


« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2006, 07:10:16 AM »

I didn't find the topic I was looking for, but I did stumble upon this:

While you may have no proof that it works, there is plenty of studies to prove that not only doesn't it work, but it can be dangerous. The claims for the antiviral bactericide are wrong. Proof?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crystalline silica may affect the immune system, leading to mycobacterial infections (tuberculous and nontuberculous) or fungal infections [ATS 1997; NIOSH 1992a,b, 1996b; Ziskind et al. 1976; Parkes 1982; Parker 1994], especially in workers with silicosis [Corbett et al. 1999; Kleinschmidt and Churchyard 1997; Althouse et al. 1995; Goldsmith et al. 1995; Hnizdo and Murray 1998; ATS 1997].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


These studies show that de can leave your system open to infections!
Here is a whole lot of studies done to find the effects of de on the human body. These researchers, scientists, doctors and scholars have done their homework and found that this product will kill you.
www.cdc.gov/niosh/02-129A.html


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAS fibers from food crops can be ingested and lead to adverse health effects due to irritative processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This study shows that when you eat diatomaceous earth it causes health problems, and that although it may absorb some toxins-
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fibrous or nonfibrous BAS can adsorb toxic organic compounds and facilitate their entry into the lung.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it absorbs them and then deposits them into the lung, not a good thing.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entr...query_hl=2
What you may be seeing is the placebo effect from this product, because there is no evidence that it works for anything you claim. Its part of the big money quackery scam.
"Quackery...The Billion Dollar Miracle Business

Today: Thursday, November 17, 2005

This year, we Americans will spend billions of dollars on products that do nothing for us - or may even harm us. And we'll do it for the same reason people have done it since ancient times... we want to believe in miracles. We want to find simple solutions and shortcuts to better health.
It's hard to resist. All of us, at one time or another, have seen or heard about a product - a new and exotic pill, a device, or potion - that can easily solve our most vexing problem. With this product, we're told, we can eat all we want and still lose weight. We can grow taller or build a bigger bustline. Or we can overcome baldness, age, arthritis, even cancer.

It sounds too good to be true - and it is. But we're tempted to try the product in spite of all we know about modern medical science - or perhaps because of it. After all, many treatments we take for granted today were once considered miracles. How can we tell the difference?

SEPARATING FACTS FROM FANTASY

Not all advertisements for health products are false, of course. In fact, the vast majority aren't. So just what is quackery? Simply put, quackery is the promotion of a medical remedy that doesn't work or hasn't been proven to work. In modern times, quackery is known as health fraud. But call it quackery or call it health fraud, the result is the same - unfulfilled wishes, wasted dollars, endangered health.

Often quack products are fairly easy to spot, like the magic pills you are supposed to take to stay forever young. But sometimes the products are vaguely based on some medical report that you may even have heard about in the news.

In general, when looking over ads for medicines and medical devices, watch out for those that seem to promise too much too easily. And investigate, before you participate.

THE HIGH PRICE OF HEALTH FRAUD

Quack cures rob us of more than money. They can steal health away or even take lives. Quacks may lure the seriously and often desperately ill, such as people suffering from arthritis and cancer, into buying a bogus cure. When people try quack remedies instead of getting effective medical help, their illnesses progress, sometimes beyond the treatable stage.

TODAY'S TARGETS FOR QUACK ATTACKS

Quacks have always been quick to exploit current thinking. The snake-oil salesmen a few generations back carried an array of "natural" remedies to sell to a public that was still close to the frontier. And today, quacks take advantage of the back-to-nature movement, capitalizing on the notion that there ought to be simple, natural solutions to almost any problem. Some current target areas for such promotions include:

ARTHRITIS. Over 30 million Americans suffer from arthritis, and the nature of the disease makes it fertile ground for fraud. And because symptoms may come and go, or the disease may be in remission for several years, arthritis sufferers may actually believe at least temporarily, that they've been cured by a quack remedy.

Before you add to the $2 billion spent annually on quack arthritis cures, remember that, although medical science offers effective treatments, it has found no cure for arthritis. The list of fraudulent "miracle cures" for the disease ranges from snake venom to lemon juice, from the harmless milk of vaccinated cows to the dangerous use of steroids. More dangerous and costly arthritis treatments are offered by legitimate-looking clinics, often located outside the United States. While some clinics may offer effective treatment, many prescribe untested diets or drugs that either offer no arthritis cure or cause patients to have additional health problems. Beware of arthritis clinics that offer cures.

It is important to remember that pain relief and inflammation treatments are not the same. A product that advertises relief for the minor pains of arthritis does not necessarily treat inflammation. For this reason, the serious condition of arthritis should be treated by a doctor.

FITNESS. Quacks know that people would like to have the benefits of exercise without actually exercising. So recent years have brought all sorts of "body toning" devices, such as electrical muscle stimulators. Such devices are, of course, worthless for "body toning" and can even be dangerous, but they're advertised and sold as substitutes for exercising.

WEIGHT LOSS. These schemes are probably the most popular form of quackery. Millions seek a painless way to win the battle of the bulge. Since proper diet and exercise take constant discipline and work, quack claims are especially appealing and, to some, worth a try. But quick weight-loss products aren't worth a try when they affect your health and harm you, and they can harm you if only by not helping you. Being overweight can lead to number of health problems, including high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, and kidney disease.

The fact is that you cannot lose weight if you do not cut down on the amount of food you eat or exercise more to burn up calories. Any product claim that promises to trim you down and tone you up effortlessly is false. Consult your doctor before beginning any diet program, and remember, there are no medicines or devices that will let you lose weight effortlessly.

CANCER. Here quack cures are probably the cruelest and the most expensive. Seriously ill people may spend thousands of dollars on phony treatments that do nothing to relieve their disease or suffering. Often, the quack cancer treatment clinics are set up just outside the United States, so that they're beyond the jurisdiction of U.S. authorities. Before you request admission to any cancer clinic, talk to your doctor about it.

As an aid in evaluating cancer-cure claims, keep in mind that there is no one device or remedy capable of diagnosing or treating all types of cancer. Cancer cannot be detected or treated solely through the use of machines. No one medical test conducted one time can definitively diagnose cancer, nor can a machine operated by a fraudulent practitioner cure it.

QUACK ADVERTISING-THE NEED FOR HEALTHY SKEPTICISM

Many people believe that advertising is screened by a government agency and that, therefore, all claims about health products in advertising must be truthful. This is not the case with most health-care products, except for those drugs and medical devices that require pre-market approval by FDA. There is no federal, state, or local government agency that approves or verifies claims in advertisements before they are printed. Law enforcement authorities can take action only after the advertisements have appeared.

This holds for claims of a "money-back guarantee." Many quacks are fly-by-night operators who do not respond to refund demands. Often, by the time refund requests come in, they have changed their address to avoid law enforcement officials.

BEWARE OF TESTIMONIALS THAT SOUND TOO FANTASTIC TO BE TRUE

Health fraud promoters are fond of using testimonials from "satisfied users" to promote their wares. One reason they do this is that they can't get ethical health professionals to sanction their products. Legitimate testimonials may be useful sources of information about how a product works. However, beware of testimonials reporting incredibly fantastic medical results, especially when no medical support for the claim is offered. This is particularly important since "satisfied users" may, in some cases, have experienced the sugar pill, or "placebo" effect. The placebo effect occurs when people, believing they have been given a real medicine, experience a benefit from it. It is the power of suggestion at work.

YOU CAN PROTECT YOURSELF

Apply the "it-sounds-too-good-to-be-true" test to ads for health products by watching for these common characteristics of quackery:

.A quick and painless cure. .A "special," "secret," "ancient," or "foreign" formula, available only through the mail and only from one supplier. .Testimonials or case histories from satisfied users as the only proof that the product works. .A single product effective for a wide variety of ailments. .A scientific "breakthrough" or "miracle cure" that has been held back or overlooked by the medical community.

INVEST YOUR TIME BEFORE YOU INVEST YOUR MONEY

Before buying a suspect product or treatment, find out more about it. Check with one or more of the following:

.Your doctor, pharmacist, or other health professional .The Better Business Bureau .your local consumer office .your state's Attorney General .the Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C. 20580 .your nearest office of the Food and Drug Administration .your Postmaster or the Postal Inspection Service.

This brochure is a joint publication of: The Federal Trade Commission The Pharmaceutical Advertising Council The U.S. Food and Drug Administration The U.S. Postal Service

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Public Health Service Food and Drug Administration HFI-40 HHS Publication No. 85-4200
Copyright 2005 Hopkins Technology, LLC

Please show me where these experts are wrong.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BAS fibers from food crops can be ingested and lead to adverse health effects due to irritative processes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not saying DE does not have its uses, it works great around some of my plants for cut worms [although wood ashes are cheaper and work better.] If you really think you need more silica in your diet then why not just eat foods that are rich in it? Right now the estimated daily intake is recommended at 5 to 20 mg per day. Diets rich is unrefined grains and whole foods, such as wheat bran and oats are a good source of silicon. The processing and refining of food substantially decreases the amount of silicon in our food. Eating right has a lot to do with the amount of silica we ingest-animal tissue contains none. Most silica supplements are not absorbed where as eating foods rich in silica enables a better utilization of the product. Since the health complications from ingesting DE include leaky gut, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and more, if you really feel that you are not getting your 5 to 20 mg a day try some whole grain foods, its safer, cheaper and far more tasty than eating dirt.
Logged
CharlieHorse
Expert Contributor
Expert Member
******

Karma: 147
Offline Offline

Posts: 2850


Northern Bobwhites

« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2006, 06:18:48 PM »

I rest my case!   If there is a document out there about anything, this guy has got it!

Thanks Reeves............very educational.
Logged

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
gsc
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 30
Offline Offline

Posts: 246

« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2006, 06:54:54 PM »

This is a great place to get more than just the anecdotal evidence.  I've been reading posts on another board and all you hear are rave reviews.  Knowing what diatoms are made of, I was a little cautious and Reeves fills in a lot of blanks.  I was unaware of the term BAS fibers though and a search turned up the following abstract.  Thanks again.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8929705&dopt=Abstract


Scand J Work Environ Health. 1995;21 Suppl 2:108-10. Related Articles, Links 


Biogenic amorphous silica.

Rabovsky J.

California Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment, Berkeley 94704, USA.

Biogenic amorphous silica (BAS) is a natural constituent of living matter (eg, unicellular organisms and crop plants). Diatoms, whose siliceous remains are the geologic precursors to diatomaceous earth, actively process soluble silica into BAS. In some plants, a portion of the BAS exists externally as pointed or irregularly shaped fibers. Although silica-related adverse health effects are usually attributed to crystalline forms, such effects could occur as a result of exposure to BAS at high temperatures (above 800 degrees C), where crystalline silica, a known human toxicant is formed. BAS fibers from food crops can be ingested and lead to adverse health effects due to irritative processes. Airborne BAS fibers from rice can be inhaled during burning or incineration. Fibrous or nonfibrous BAS can adsorb toxic organic compounds and facilitate their entry into the lung. Recommendations for research are suggested to address the issue of potential health effects due to exposure to BAS.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 8929705 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Logged
pamike
Expert Member
*****

Karma: 3
Offline Offline

Posts: 380

« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2006, 10:59:45 AM »

I'm with reeves here, I wouldn'y use it to save my life.

mike
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
 

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!