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Author Topic: Northern Bobs  (Read 8011 times)
Pretty_Bird
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« on: August 17, 2008, 07:13:20 AM »


I am at a loss trying to figure out what is going on with my first hatch of Northern Bob Whites. I thought things were going to be great, I incubated 100 eggs and 94 hatched.
As usual I figured that I would loose a few for one reason or another but this is getting ridiculous.
 I know it is not  the size of my brooder as I have used it for Jumbo Bobs, Texas A & M's,
Georgia Giants and didn't haven't had  any of the standard problems such as too hot or too cold, feet eaters, piling up or over crowding.
   With this hatch of Northern Bobs I have done everything I can think of to stop the madness. I started out with 94 and at the end of day 2 I had lost 2 just looked like they flattened them. I have provided plenty of small water supply with electrolites and ground the Purina Gamebird Starter to cornmeal size just as I have for all other I've hatched, so food and water can't be the issue.
By day 3 I had lost another 4  two of which were drowned in the drown proof waterer??
Day 4 and 5 made for a loss of 6 more birds. Making the total loss of 12 to this point. So I watched and they are not piling up, they are moving freely around in the brooder, not gathering in any particular location nor are the avoiding any particular part of the brooder. So the temperature should not be too hot or too cold for them, I would think.
   However by mid-day of day 6 there were another 7 dead birds.
I also have Texas A &M's in another brooder and from that hatch of 120 eggs set 118 hatched 2 days before the Northern's did and total loss to date is only 3 birds.
In the other brooder I have Georgia Giants and of the 118 eggs set 118 hatched 3 days before the northern and to date I have lost only 1 leaving me with 117.
   So I am puzzled as to why all the others are doing so well and the Northern are definitely not.
  On the morning of day 7 Holy Cow it looked like a war had taken place, Bloody feet, Bloody NOSES and 8 more casualties. So I removed the dead ones and pulled the injured ones out and treated them and placed them in the hospital.
 At this point I changed to a RED BULB and placed small Straw over the wire to give the others a fighting chance so to speak. I even placed some cardboard rolls about 2 inches in diameter and cut into 3 inch sections to give them a place to hide from one another.
 The red bulb didn't seem to make any difference with these little critters it just changed their point of attack. I say this because even though they have never been without food or water, heat and attention 3 hours later I had lost 3 from the hospital and upon close inspection of the brooder there were NO more bloody feet or noses about the time I think things are OK I noticed a Bloody RECTUM so I started looking at their botoms and there were 6 who had been pecked to the point that they did not survive and that was after the addition of the RED LIGHT.
For a total loss to this point of 35 out of 94 and with only 59 left I decided to Debeak the remainder to see if that would at least slow them down.
 I lost 2 more from the hospital they just couldn't survive the stress, that left 57 mean , cruel little devils alive at the moment.
   I sat and watched them for two solid hours time and the rolls are being used when they get after one they seem to run for the hidding place. I sat and watched as one would start to get after another once he had him ran down or pend against the waterer he would get on top of it and start pecking it and at this point it seems to be an invitation for all to join in, they just keep pecking and pulling at the poor little guy until he is dead, dead, dead then it is as if they lost intrest and start on a new one.
As I watched I noticed it appeared to be the same one that started the chase every time so in short two hours later they had eliminated 3 more, Now I have only 54 Make that 53 because I PERSONALLY TOOK THE ONE THAT APPEARED TO BE THE RING LEADER OUT AND RANG HIS LITTLE NECK. I was so aggravated.
 Wow FOUR day have past and NOT ANOTHER DEAD BIRD!!
 Are the Northern's always such a pain in the ARS? Do the Northern Bobs normally kill each other off like flies.

Did I miss something that they need that I haven't given them?

OR  Did I infact have the DEVIL QUAIL from Hell????  Could he have been the one that started all  the pecking from the beginning?

 If this is anywhere near normal for these guys, sorry to say but this will be my first and  last hatch of standard Northern Bobs.
 Can you blame me only being able to keep 53 alive out of 94, that's 45% loss?


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mobe_45
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 08:55:40 AM »

sounds like you had a possessed bird spider spider. Very odd. it sounds like you got the bugger though.
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CharlieHorse
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Northern Bobwhites

« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 11:28:12 AM »

I've had them that are potential serial killers and think they're going to whip everybody, but never got to fulfill their destiny simply because I do not heat with light (baseboard heater) and can dim the lights that are there, I also turn the lights off completely at night.  Your maniac may have been an extreme case?

Sorry to hear of your great loss, I'd be hacked too!!
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2008, 12:52:26 PM »


  I don't understand why anyone uses white light, for heat.  I guess it's because, like you, some get by with it a few times.  Even the red bulbs can be a problem.

  The whole captive brooding process is artificial, and much different than nature.  When the hen is warming chicks, there is not much light, under her.  She sees the potential little peckers, knows the difference between her chicks, and will not tolerate much ot it.  In the wild, there are plenty of other things to peck.  I'm sure the "instinctual need"  to capture food, is partially at fault.

  Although on the average the Northerns (compared to Georgia Giants) may not be more aggressive, they all vary, some, from hatch to hatch.  Your next batch may be docile, and you may get a hatch of Georgia Giants that are nuts!  All in all, my impression is that the smaller quail seem to be a little more lively, and animated, but I can't prove it.

  Once this kind of thing starts, it's hard to stop.  You noticed, huh?  The best would to eliminate as much light as possible.  The very best, would be to raise them in pretty dark conditions (I've heard about one candlepower), from the start.
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slider
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What do you mean I have to press 1 for english.

« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2008, 03:01:43 PM »

They use a white light so they can see them when they go into the room.... s020
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Pretty_Bird
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2008, 06:52:24 PM »

My room is heated by electric baseboard heaters and my lights are 7 or 8 watts I'm not sure which. they don't shine really bright at all I have 3 different colors red, blue and white. I have heard that changing to the red color bulb would discourage picking at each other. Is this incorrect?
 the room is fairly dark with only the three little bulbs burning in it. Just about enough light not to stump their little toes when hunting food or water. (ha ha) As for the overhead light in the room I have removed all but one 40 watt bulb from the fixture and only use it when I'm cleaning brooders out or changing food and water.
Do you really believe that I have too much light in the room?

 I never thought about trying absence of all light. HUM thought to ponder.
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2008, 08:58:15 PM »

Posted by: slider  Posted on: Today at 12:01:43 PM 
Insert Quote 
They use a white light so they can see them when they go into the room.... 




  I don't understand why anyone uses white light, for heat. 

  I guess I should have underlined for heat.
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 09:39:17 PM »

Do you really believe that I have too much light in the room?


  If someone had simply told me they had a red, a white, and a blue 8watt bulb in a room, I probably would not have said that was too much.

  I would say, if you had less light, when the problem started, they wouldn't have been as likely to peck each other.  The only information you gave about lighting was:

  " On the morning of day 7 Holy Cow it looked like a war had taken place, Bloody feet, Bloody NOSES and 8 more casualties. So I removed the dead ones and pulled the injured ones out and treated them and placed them in the hospital.
 At this point I changed to a RED BULB and placed small Straw over the wire to give the others a fighting chance so to speak."

  And:

  "I noticed a Bloody RECTUM so I started looking at their botoms and there were 6 who had been pecked to the point that they did not survive and that was after the addition of the RED LIGHT."

   I'm still not sure exactly what you had for light, in the beginning.

  If it was; 1 red, 1 white, and 1 blue bulb, as you mentioned, that wouldn't be a lot of light, if they are on the ceiling.  If they are used to draw the birds to the heat (which is the normal use for these bulbs), they could probably see well enough to peck.  The colored bulbs are used to cut amount of light, especially from heat bulbs.  The red is used, partially, because blood does not show up as red, under red light.  Having other bulbs at the same time probably totally erases this advantage.

  I'm still not sure if you changed to all red bulbs, now, but that's how it sounds.  If you turn those lights off, is the room totally black, or is there some light from outside?  Don't guess, try it.  My incubator room is too light from natural light to candle eggs, at certain times of the day.  Sit there, until your eyes completely dialate.  Can you see the feeders?

  Once the pecking starts, if you put them in a steel box, and weld the seams to block all light, they might still peck!

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slider
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What do you mean I have to press 1 for english.

« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 10:55:57 PM »

Thats why they use white lights for HEAT...so they can see the LITTLE quail when they go into the room..Its more important to watch them than it is to incubate them properly...
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wildergamebirds
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2008, 12:00:45 AM »

Thats why they use white lights for HEAT...so they can see the LITTLE quail when they go into the room..Its more important to watch them than it is to incubate them properly...

  I really should have recognized that, right off.  Your sense of humor (if it can be called that :-o), can sneak up on a guy!

  I think you're right.  Some people do it that way, for that reason, or because the bulbs are easier to find.  Plus, short cutting research.  That's not the case this time, though.  She seems to be doing everything pretty much the way it should be done, the best I can tell.  Maybe just a spastic hatch, or a new, nocturnal strain.
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CharlieHorse
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Northern Bobwhites

« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2008, 11:04:36 AM »

Quote
She seems to be doing everything pretty much the way it should be done, the best I can tell.  Maybe just a spastic hatch, or a new, nocturnal strain.

I'll have to agree with that.   

I only have a 7 watt red and a 7 watt white bulb and it's not much light, but it's enough.  I turn them out at night after the first week...............but I don't think that will help stop the cannibalism in this situation, yet may give them a break.  I do it to mimic nature, etc.

 s87
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greyghost
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2008, 10:34:56 PM »

Pretty Bird,  depending on  temperature use or do not use a RED heat lamp to keep the chicks alive. Other colors of lamps can cause stress.  Chicks cannot see red to the point that it bothers them and they seem to like the heat. Start them out with red light to the point of feathered out .  At that point they should be OK.
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imthequaillady
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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2009, 11:50:39 PM »

We had trouble with our last batch of northerns.  Pecking each other.  I was told to make sure the feedhad 29% protein.  We got that feed and the pecking stopped completely.
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lamike
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 09:47:54 AM »

thats an excellent point i think some missed
the protein in the feed should be higher for alot of reasons but one is to help from cannibalism same as the red light
with base heaters you can also try complete darkness in your brooder it has seemed to help with problem birds for me
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thekid
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 12:51:41 AM »

Hey Boss, looks like some spam mail slipped through!  c110
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