That Quail Place Forum
Raising Gamebirds => Brooding and Raising => Topic started by: tinyavenger on July 21, 2005, 12:17:09 PM
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My friend has 2 to 3 week old Bob White Quail that appear to be fine but have started dying off several at a time. He mentioned that several looked like they were having a seizure just before they died. I gave him the breeding pair after hatching and raising 40 chicks successfully. He has had the pair for about two years without a successfull hatch, the chicks always die after a week or two. He is not incubating the eggs, the female is hatching them out and he moves them to the brooder. Temp and setup of the brooder is fine, water source is fine, not sure about the type of feed he's using and he does have pine shavings in the brooder - this could be part of the problem. Any ideas why they would live for 2-3 weeks then die suddenly? What about the seizure-like symptoms?
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I'm also very interested as to what the answer may be. I was involved in another discussion regarding pine shavings and the ultimate end was that pine shavings were fine, it was cedar you wanted to stay away from.....now do you have different info on that?
So far I have done just fine with pine shavings and just got back into hatching quail this year. I have experienced the California Valley quail just dying after being fine for about 2 weeks. That was a big disappointment, but....I think their problem was that they were pecking each other in the eyes SO bad that their eyes hurt and were swollen almost shut. I had to keep opening their eyes and then showing them where food and water was located.
I had something of the same thing happen with a few bobwhites as well......just seemed fine and were eating and drinking and then noticed that a handful stopped eating as much and then about 2 weeks to 3 weeks old those that weren't eating as regularly just died off.
All of my eggs are being incubated manually, not by the birds. Also, all of my eggs have been shipped to me....so I know that poor hatch rates were due to shipping too.....but I would definitely like to see what more experienced breeders can come up with.
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Oh forgot to mention......mine did that little seizure thing too just before finally dying....and I think it's just that last moment before they die....like their bodies just give out.
There was a consistency with noticing that they weren't as lively as the others.....so I kind of put in the back of my mind that I knew certain ones wouldn't make it even though I tried to get them to drink and eat.
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I have the same thing happening in the first week. Its easy to tell when they are going to die as they spaz out and in a matter of an hour or so, one of them is dead. There doesn't appear to be any pecking but I may try and trim the beak to eliminate that as an issue.
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Pecking was not an issue in this case but I have just recently learned that he was only feeding them ground corn. I told him this was not an adequate food source for baby quail (he's used to raising chickens). I also suggested thoroughly cleaning and disinfecting the brooder to avoid possible contamination or disease. All of the chicks were eating and drinking normally, they just keeled over dead. I don't know how much genes come into play with raising birds but I am unsure of just how closely related the "parents" are since they came from a batch of about forty quail that I raised. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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needs to feed them a game bird starter corn is no good they probably starved to death
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Actually, they were eating the corn, so they didn't starve to death, but thanks for the insight.
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just because they were eating corn does not mean they were getting any nurishment from it but i guess you new that i only raise about 4000 birds a year pheasant quail chuckers huns and hatch about 90 %of my own eggs your welcome for the insight
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Most of the starter feeds are medicated and high in protein 28%, I would check the feed he is using, young quail need the high protein to grow and a balance diet also they need some sort of medication to get them started, coccidiosis can wipe a flock of quail within 24 hrs, corn alone just doesn't meet the requirements a young quail needs to make it to and adult bird, I doult that it has anything to do with genes the chicks are dying to close together and you would also have chicks that weren't properly form,
Medicate and use a high protien starter
Joip
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The seizures were most likely the end result of multiple organ failure brought about by starvation. Baby birds do not have the ability to "break down" larger pieces of food. As they get older you need to add a high calcium grit to their diet so they can begin to digest larger crumble. The calcium is necessary for good bone development and is crucial in laying hens of any bird species.
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just because they were eating corn does not mean they were getting any nurishment from it but i guess you new that i only raise about 4000 birds a year pheasant quail chuckers huns and hatch about 90 %of my own eggs your welcome for the insight
Perhaps you should read some of my earlier messages before you post such a rude reply! These are not my quail dying! I had a 90% hatch rate. I'm trying to help out a friend here and find some possible explanation for the sudden death of his quail other than poor nutrition from improper feeding (which was already determined). In my opinion, "starving to death" would indicate a complete lack of food, which was not the case. I suggest you change the "tone" of your replies when responding to "new members", apparently not everyone has your level of expertise!
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To Joip:
What are the symptoms, if any, of coccidiosis?
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perhaps you should change your tone because you asked a question and i gave you an answer but you thought it was not correct i quess you found out that birds can starve even though they are eating
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Coccidiosis is a parasitic disease of the intestinal tract the disease spreads from one bird to another by contact with infected feces or droppings in there water. It is most severe in young or weak birds and often causes bloody diarrhea, its very contagious and they often die from dehydration, there are many intestinal bugs or parasites, as I said above young quails should be medicated and have a high protien diet most of the starter feeds cover all this or you can buy supplements to put in thier water, as a young kid my grandfather always put condy's crystals in thier water for worming,
Corn only has a protein level around 10% young quail need 28% and chickens need 15%
I have always used pine shavings and never had an problems, if the pens or however the setup is as long as it kept clean a well balance and high protein diet plus medication he shouldn't have a problem
Joip
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Thanks so much, you are very helpful. I will pass on the info regarding the crystals for worming. Have you experienced any of the seizure-like symptoms in your quail before? I know some people have seen it happen in quail that were getting proper diet and medication, so I'm thinking it may not necessarily be diet related. I never witnessed anything like that with my quail.
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Below is an article which may be of help to you . I also included the web site address which I found it on.
Game bird feeds are available with several types of medications for preventing or treating diseases. The two most common medications added to feeds are coccidiostats and antibiotics.
Coccidiosis is a disease of the digestive tract caused by protozoan organisms called coccidia. It is difficult to control by sanitation practices alone. The best prevention is continuous use of a drug or coccidiostat that reduces coccidia populations. The coccidiostat is usually added to the feed at low levels and fed continuously. Some coccidiostats are given at elevated levels for treating the disease when symptoms appear. Consult a nutritionist or pathologist before increasing the drug level, since some coccidiostats are toxic at elevated levels.
Growing birds are fed rations containing a coccidiostat from hatch until the last week before slaughter. An unmedicated diet is fed during the last week to assure no drug residues remain in the tissues of the birds. This feeding of unmedicated diets before slaughter is recommended when using any dietary drug, regardless of whether drug restriction is required or not.
As birds mature, they develop a resistance to the coccidia organisms if you control exposure. Birds grown for breeder replacements are fed a coccidiostat until about 16 weeks of age. The medicated feed is then replaced with a feed not containing a coccidiostat. Spotty outbreaks of the disease are controlled by including a coccidiostat in drinking water. Two coccidiostats with Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for use in quail feeds are monensin sodium (Coban®) and amprolium.
Antibiotics are also added to some feeds to improve performance and maintain healthy birds. When added at low (prophylactic) levels, antibiotics prevent minor diseases and produce faster, more efficient growth. Higher (therapeutic) levels for treating disease outbreaks are usually given in water or injected into the bird. Examples of FDA approved antibiotics for quail diets are bacitracin and penicillin.
This information was found at http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2383.htm
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Hi what is probably wrong is that your friend needs to feed his quail game bird crumbles and not cor or some kind of feed with 28% protein.He may also not be putting Sulmet(poultry and cow medicine) in their water. It keeps tem from getting diseases and bacterial infections. I also had problems with my quail dying and they also looked like they were having seizures. I hope my comment helps thanks.
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Is "Sulmet" available in small quantities? He only has a few quail left but the female is sitting eggs again.
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Well this is quite an interesting topic! I, too, have a question related to the size of feed for 2-3 week old baby bobs. We just got 5 bobs a few days ago, 2 week old. I'm feeding them turkey crumble- 26% protien. My husband fishes, so we had a container of mealworms in the fridge that we gave to them and they gobbled them up. They luuhhved the mealworms.
After reading this, now I realize I may have really hurt them. I feel so bad! Being a mother, I wonder...
... if I rub their little tummies, will that help them digest the mealworms? When are they allowed to eat mealworms? (If I missed something or am in the wrong forum, please let me know :)