That Quail Place Forum

Raising Gamebirds => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on October 12, 2005, 01:06:16 PM

Title: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on October 12, 2005, 01:06:16 PM

Are Red Tailed Hawks territorially (meaning one hawk in an area), when due they normally feed and do they migrate?

Same question pertains to Owls.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
WV DNR# D6-16-05GF

 
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on October 12, 2005, 11:45:39 PM
According to this -

http://www.smm.org/warnernaturecenter/programs/faq_red_tailed_hawk.php

Red Tails are territorial in mated pairs and many do migrate for the winter (although some established adults will not).

I can't find any specifics on feeding times of day.

Red Tailed Hawks are protected under the migratory bird act.

I think with the owls, the answers would depend upon the species.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on October 17, 2005, 08:44:23 AM
I have an answer for when hawks feed. Sun up till sun down! I'm constantly trying to run them away from my pens. Have a terrible time with chicken hawks too. I've had as many as 5 hawks on my pens at one time. They kill at least 10 quail a week! They spook em and make them fly from one end of the pen to the other and catch them when they hit the ends. Usually I just find headless birds where they catch them but can't hold on to them through the netting. When the quail have had enough and they hunker down and won't fly I've seen them sit in one spot and flap their wings like they're stuck in the netting. I guess they are trying to just scare any up that they can. Anybody got a solution? Some way to run them off for good? I'm afraid they're ruining my good flight quail.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on October 17, 2005, 11:42:55 AM
How about a livestock guard dog? 

The sight of a larger predator in the area (the dog) should be enough to deter a hawk.

You'd just have to teach the dog that the birds are "his" so that he'll protect them.

Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on October 17, 2005, 11:46:57 AM
Or what about some large rubber snakes?  They work for other birds, but not sure if hawks eat snakes?

You could put them on a piece of plywood or something on top of the cages so that the hawks can see them, but the quail can't.

Just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Bloomingtongamebirds on October 18, 2005, 02:19:02 PM
.17 CALIBER IS THE ANSWER
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Fivehollers on October 22, 2005, 10:31:13 AM
Hawks eat snakes. We had to put roofs on all of our cages and cleared away some smaller trees around the cages to deter roosting or landing of predator birds. Our problem are the coons and weazels.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: jchiar on October 23, 2005, 05:42:21 AM
.17 works great on all pesky varmits that will not listen to reason
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: stewaw on October 23, 2005, 08:42:46 AM
I've got free range chickens and every year I lose a few chickens to Red Tailed aka Chicken Hawks.  I "take care" of the problem when I can but I've resigned to not stay up nights worrying about it.  Doesn't take any time at all for my penned quail and pheasant to recognize the danger call given out by the chickens upon sighting one of the hawks.  They then all duck and run for cover in the pens, hawks go for the easy target....that dumb hen who just happend to be my favorite at the time and just a little slower than the rest.  Tried keeping a handfull of extra roosters as bait but the hawks never seem to get them....just my favorite hens. Murphy's law I guess.  Owls also go for the easy mark.  Great Horned Owls (aka flying cats) seem to primarily go for the free ranging house cats since it seems as neighbors are always looking for a lost cat around here.

David
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: sawblade on October 23, 2005, 09:02:11 PM
Hawks are a protected species but I will tell you how some people take care of them down south.    Put up a post  about 6 feet high near your quail pens, place a #2 steel trap on top of the post and cock the trap. You do not need any bait as the hawks will land on the post to eye your birds, when he does.....KAPOW...... it aint pretty. Oh be sure to attach the trap to the post  so he wont leave with it.    THIS IS NOT LEGAL, but it works.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: stewaw on October 23, 2005, 10:35:35 PM
Sawblade,
  I live in about as remote a place as Oklahoma has to offer and while I've known of that method since I was a kid, I've never used it.  Imagine our surprise last year when the local papers were fronted with a story about several arrests (eight or ten as I recall) being made (one as close as a few miles from me) by the US Fish and Wildlife Service for just that very thing.  Article said all the properties were identified by aircraft to make the arrests. I told my wife that I BET our property resulted in them doing a double take since I have a single raised pole (with lights) over my pens and I use a nail sticking out from it to hang some of my traps.....bet they buzzed my house several times before they decided I wasn't a case. On hind sight I realized how guilty that made me look so now I've moved the traps....hate the thought of giving one of those fellows whiplash LOL.

David 
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: trout bum on October 25, 2005, 03:41:01 PM
Red Tailed Hawk is much larger than a Chicken Hawk (Coopers Hawk), maybe you have the two confused. Though both due equal damage.....
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on October 26, 2005, 01:36:54 PM
Even though the Red-tailed Hawk has killed 6 to 12 of my released birds (6 confirmed), since July, I haven't seen him or her since last week.

I have noticed more crows around lately. I do believe the crows will chase the hawks for territorial rites.

I have begun releasing the adults once again. It seems that the hawk had killed only the Ring-necked hens and cocks and didn't bother the H/C Melanistice Mutants.

We will see what happens.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: jchiar on October 26, 2005, 07:10:18 PM
crows will definately chase hawks
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on October 27, 2005, 02:37:56 PM
Well I guess I spoke to soon.

After releasing another 1/2 dozen RNC's yesterday, the S.O.B. (Red-tailed) has returned. Seems he/she likes to display the remains on top of my flight pen. The rest the birds are scattered around my farm and the neighbor's farms. We flushed 16 total birds this morning (14 RN C's & H's and 2 Melanistic C's) and 7 Woodcocks.

That make 7 hawk kills (5 confirmed RN C's and 2 RN H's).

He/she has got to be doing it late at night, or early in the mornings before sunrise. I fed the birds last night so I could go hunting this morning, in heavy fog, and the dead carcass of the RNC, what was left, was in plain sight for me to see as I walked past the pen.

This has got to stop!

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on October 27, 2005, 02:59:08 PM
AFAIK, hawks do not hunt in the dark.  It sounds like you're dealing with another kind of predator - owl, maybe?

Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: jchiar on October 27, 2005, 07:25:16 PM
if it is happening at night most likely an owl
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on October 29, 2005, 09:11:27 AM
Well the S.O.B. came back yesterday sometime and picked up the remains on top of the netting. What was left was the back and wings.

I was outside last night waiting inside the the barn area of the housed pheasants. No one showed up.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on November 01, 2005, 10:34:10 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. (trap sounds good) Wish I was a better shot. I beginning to think the only solution will be to double net the tops of the pens, but so expensive. I have the red tail and the smaller chicken hawks. The chicken hawks seem to do 90% of the killing. Now an owl has shown up to. They're working in shifts. Any quail I let out of the flight pens are gone in two days.
 I've had to start leaving my free range chickens penned all the time now because I have something brave enough to come up in the yard to kill them and carry them off in the middle of the day! Haven't figured out what it is yet. TheCoons are pretty easy to trap, but coyotes and bobcats are a different matter. I think I'm slowly losing the battle.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on November 01, 2005, 12:36:52 PM
You need yourself a livestock guard.

What about geese?  They can be nasty fighters...
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: quailer370 on November 01, 2005, 10:25:27 PM
i know a guy with free range chickens who has this great dane guard them all the time-doesnt hurt them or anything.  all the predators stay away.  maybe train a dog???-because wouldnt the daytime predator just carry off geese...i say that seriously because ive been attacked several times by geese.

-quailer370
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 02, 2005, 02:15:19 PM
Well, we can make that 8 confirmed kills. This one happen between 10am-1pm. again the S.O.B. left the remains on to of the top-flight netting.

I wonder if I can file a law suite against the Federal Government for their protected hawks, invading my air space, and trespassing, tormenting and killing my birds.

I guess I would need one shyster of a lawyer, and he would have to do pro-quo.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on November 02, 2005, 03:27:09 PM
Then get yourself a livestock guard animal...find the biggest, nastiest geese you can get - the kind of geese that will attack dogs and Mack trucks.  With them, your place will soon not be worth the hassle to the predators...just make sure they know that you're the guy with the food...

Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on November 02, 2005, 05:35:32 PM
I had one of those kind of geese before, till he grabbed me by the nose one day while I was filling his feeder! :laugh: Guess I should have kept him around.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 02, 2005, 08:23:53 PM
I have had my share of attack geese. I got jumped by one and he made a nice Thanksgiving dinner.

I even have  5 dogs and they can't be there all the time. they alway walk the pens.

The hawks are smart. I saw one on the flight pen, and when I opened the back door of the house, the S.O.B. flew. The distance from my back door to the flight pen is no more then 100 feet.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on November 03, 2005, 10:25:49 AM
I'm with you Steve. The hawks are smart and just getting smarter. Our pens are about 200 ft from the house and separated by trees and I swear they see me as soon as I open the door. Now I totally understand  the saying "watch em like a hawk". Nothing gets past em. When I am lucky enough to sneak up on them, they've figured out to fly down behind the back of the pens instead of flying up. We have two dogs, no help there. I keep hoping they'll go ahead and migrate on down south, but why should they? They got it made here. 
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on November 03, 2005, 03:03:57 PM
Hmmm...what about a "scarehawk" then?  Some kind of human-form thing like a scarecrow that you can move around the cages every other day or so?

Put a big rake or some other threatening-looking tool in its hands and put it up to guard the cages. 

Keep repositioning it to keep it scary.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 03, 2005, 04:28:50 PM

What about owl decoys? Are the hawks wary of the owls, or do they just share the festivities.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 03, 2005, 04:43:20 PM
I'm with you Steve. The hawks are smart and just getting smarter. Our pens are about 200 ft from the house and separated by trees and I swear they see me as soon as I open the door. Now I totally understand  the saying "watch em like a hawk". Nothing gets past em. When I am lucky enough to sneak up on them, they've figured out to fly down behind the back of the pens instead of flying up. We have two dogs, no help there. I keep hoping they'll go ahead and migrate on down south, but why should they? They got it made here. 


rushcreek,
I can see my flight pen from my bedroom window. I have watched the S.O.B. land on the far corner of it. The S.O.B. will then bounce on the top-flight netting to spook the pheasants into flight.

The pheasants that are released that hang around the pen hide when the hawk is around. The pen birds start to do a warning signal. As soon as the released birds, RNC and RNH feel it is safe to come out the hawk swoops down and whacks one. Then the hawk goes back on the flight pen and begins to tare it apart.

I understand that the hawks have to eat too, but there are dove all over the property along with cottontail rabbits all day long.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on November 03, 2005, 06:27:27 PM
I don't think the owl decoy would work. We've seen both the great horned owl and the chicken hawks on the pens at the same time late in the afternoon. And yeah I've seen em bounce up and down on the netting too. I thought he might have been hung in the netting at first, but no, just trying to spook em once the quail just give it up and try to hide.
I've even tried the scarecrow thing. They figure that out real quick.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: quailer370 on November 03, 2005, 09:12:42 PM
there are a couple of suggestions here:

http://www.dovepage.com/cgi-dovepage/mb/2465-2.shtml

if you cant find anything that works you could probably shut away your birds for a few days and if the hawk thinks there's no more food to be had there he'll move on to better huntin grounds...

-quailer370
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: mikken on November 03, 2005, 11:20:23 PM
Oh - interesting!

Ok, they say that spraying them with the hose works, so how about one of these -

http://www2.yardiac.com/long.asp?item_id=885&promo=google

Motion-activated so you don't even have to be there!
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: rushcreek on November 04, 2005, 10:01:50 AM
Okay, the sprinkler system looks interesting, but we survive on stored rain water here. Not enough water pressure. I can't even get one of those sprinklers to work in the yard, and I would be trying to cover about an acre of pens.
  Putting the birds away for awhile would be great except I've got close to 6,000 quail in the flight pens right now.
I think I'm just s**t out of luck at this point.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 04, 2005, 04:30:08 PM
Yea, I saw that too. Just to many birds to keep in the barn, and the sprinkler system has got to be a joke. What do you do in the winter, run heat strips.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: aKirA on November 04, 2005, 04:30:47 PM
This site has some good info on some economical things you could try.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex916?opendocument

Or you can try to beat them with technology. I have no experience with these products so you may want to do a little more research first. good luck
http://www.birdcontrolpro.com/product_birdgard_pro.htm
http://www.promolife.com/products/birds.htm#birdgardproplus
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: aKirA on November 07, 2005, 04:39:28 PM
Well...Bastard was able to take 4 of my 5 week ould jumbo browns over a 2 day period. I don't always have a problem with predators since I have all my birds caged. But this particular make shift cage is just for holding my meat bird chicks. He must've pounced on the top till the cage came off the floor. I've been getting regular visits by this hawk. Came down with the migration I guess. I think it is a red tail hawk, judging by the size and color.

went and put some aluminum streamers by my cages as that link suggested. hope it helps.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on November 07, 2005, 05:48:02 PM
Well...Bastard was able to take 4 of my 5 week ould jumbo browns over a 2 day period. I don't always have a problem with predators since I have all my birds caged. But this particular make shift cage is just for holding my meat bird chicks. He must've pounced on the top till the cage came off the floor. I've been getting regular visits by this hawk. Came down with the migration I guess. I think it is a red tail hawk, judging by the size and color.

went and put some aluminum streamers by my cages as that link suggested. hope it helps.

Well, well, well-come to the club! If they are there, I quarantee they will remain until the festivities has ceased.

We had high winds and clear to cloudy skies yesterday here in West Virginia. I am located in a hollow, I counted, 8 Red-tailed hawks circling the ridge tops. I was waiting for some of the S.O.B.'s to drop by.

It seems since the colder weather has arrived, all the Turkey Vultures has migrated, along with some of the non-resident crows. This leaves a wide open space for the Red-Tailed Hawks to site in their prey.

As far as todays weather, no wind or breeze. I didn't spot one Red-Tailed hawk all day. I guess these birds of prey work in random cycles.

Good luck with your problem, and keep us updated.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 06, 2006, 04:51:10 PM
Well here it is Jan. 7th 2006 and the Red-Tailed Hawk saga continues. I went out to feed the birds this morning around 10am and I had one dead cock pheasant laying on top of the net and one hen with the head on the to of the net and the body laying in the flight pen.

So much for migration!

Happy New Year to all new and old members!

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 06, 2006, 04:57:17 PM
............and here is the head of the hen on top of the netting.


On a side note about posting pictures,
to bad we can only have a total of 192KB in any one post at a time.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: birdman on January 06, 2006, 05:51:27 PM
Red tail hawks must stop and the Coopers too.Today as I drove from Burnsville back home colse to Summersville I counted 11 Red tail hawks and 1 what I think was a Cooper..They need to lift the ban from them being federal protected...Of course they never will since this state of WV does not really except the gamebird,its not a money maker for them..Now if these hawks were eating bears,deer and turkey all the time Im sure there would be a season on them... :laugh:
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: quailer370 on January 06, 2006, 09:43:27 PM
someone mentioned a scarecrow earlier i think maybe if you made one holding a gun..

the problem with hawks is that they dont really have any natural enemies...

-quailer
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 07, 2006, 07:18:33 AM
Well I put in a call to the Feds, Fish and Wildlife Section. I asked them to see if their is any permit to control the hawk problem that I have here on my farm, since I am running a business.

They said that they will check into it and send any permit paperwork within the next week.

We shall see what happens!

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: joshblue on January 07, 2006, 05:18:30 PM
not sure but ive always wanted one where can i get one
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 08, 2006, 05:59:41 AM
not sure but ive always wanted one where can i get one

Since they are a Federal and State protective Raptors, you need a special permit. You will have to find someone in your area that is into Falconry.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 17, 2006, 06:03:29 PM
Still no reply from the Feds on my problem. Knock on Wood I haven't had a hawk kill since I staked the dead birds around the top of the flight pen. It is not a pretty site, but it seems effective so far.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: aKirA on January 20, 2006, 01:38:51 AM
Have you considered double netting the top? Putting a second net over the old spaced perhaps 1-2 feet apart. Im not sure how expensive these nettings are but this sounds like it would definitely work.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 20, 2006, 04:47:19 AM
Double netting won't work, reasons being:

1-cost factor
2-winter snow loads

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: zip on January 20, 2006, 09:41:50 AM
I had a problem with hawks sitting on my pen. I found a used electric fence used for cows and ran the wire around the top of my pen where i thought the hawk would land. Turned it up to WOW and sat back and watched. Had three different hawks land for about 1/10th of a second.  They only landed once and didnt like it. Havent had any problems with them. When they or others come around the fence goes back on for a couple of days and they usually clear out. Works on owls too. I even thought of putting it around the base of my pen for the walking critters. Animals like easy meals so the harder you make it for them the less they like it. The only problem I have had with this is when I forget its on and I get zapped. See it works on people too now I check it every time I go out to the pen.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 20, 2006, 01:33:16 PM
I've got the hawks doing a trampoline act on top off the net to spook the birds into flight. Again, it is the cost factor running wire around the perimeter and throughout the whole netting. My pen is 55'x100' not the easiest thing to stretch wire on.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: zip on January 20, 2006, 01:54:41 PM
I hear what your sayijng about the wire. My pen was 25 x 50. I didnt cover the whole top area. I put it where I saw the hawks landing before they went after the birds. I had a ridge pole on my pen that I ran the wire down it turned out to pe a perfect spot for it. All the hawks would eventually try to land there.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Foz on January 20, 2006, 04:50:48 PM
This type of hawk trap is what you need.  Use a crate that has high visibility like this one.  Set the trap atop the crate that has the "bait pheasant".  Open up the spring loaded lids and prop them open with the trigger perch.  Once the hawk lands on the perch trying to get the pheasant, wham...you got him.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 20, 2006, 05:27:39 PM
I don't know Foz, These Red-tailed Hawks are pretty slick. I have a cage as illustrated in the first photo.

I just have my reservations about the "Hawk" actually landing inside the trap. The board with the hinge in the center, is this the trap mechanism?

Are you camouflaging the cage and trap or is this just the way it is setup?

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Foz on January 20, 2006, 06:03:16 PM
Obviously, a .22 rifle works the best.  But, for a more humane trap (live trap) this is it.  I've had several old timers tell me how they used these and that it works pretty good.  Just place it where you are seeing the hawk frequent the most.  Takes some patience sometime.  Kinda like a recall funnel on quail.  Some are a little more hesitant of going in it than others.

If they are hungry enough, especially this time of year when all the rabbits, mice and other things are farther and fewer between, a hawk will go in about anything after a meal. 

I had a roller pigeon cage that I flew a kit of rollers from and it had one of those one-way aluminum bob doors in it so after the pigeons were done flying and went back into the cage they couldn't get out anymore.  It was set up right against the back side of my house.  The door was only 6 inches tall by 10 inches wide and I caught several hawks that went in through the door after pigeons.  But, once inside couldn't get out.  Obviously, I didn't set this up to catch hawks, it just happened this way.

You have nothing to loose by building one, other than a few hours of labor.  It it only catches every other hawk, you're ahead of the game.

Edit:
Forgot to answer your questions...This is the setup, no camoflauge needed.  yes, the perch in the middle of the cage is split in the middle with a hinge so it folds up under the weight of the birds landing on it so the doors will slam shut.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on January 21, 2006, 04:13:56 AM
Foz,
Is there a bottom on that trap? and what is on the sides, wire or plastic net?

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Foz on January 21, 2006, 09:31:05 AM
Yes, the entire framework of the trap is covered with wire, bottom included, so you can see through into the crate where the "bait pheaant is.  This one has vinyl coated poulty wire on it, but you could use anything strong enough that the bird couldn't tear through.

Btw, the "bait pheasant" you put in the crate should be a live one.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Hinkjc on March 15, 2006, 07:59:42 PM
One thing also you can try to help keep Birds of pray out during day time hours,

 is a mirror type wind chimes. Put it out in the open and it will help keep birds away. The don't like the movemint of the mirrors and reflections.

You may have to make it, they are hard to find in stores. Some dollar stores carry them.

Charlie
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: tanaro2 on May 21, 2006, 01:50:56 AM
Boy oh boy.  Just talking about this stuff can get you nailed.  The trap you are referring to is a SGHT. ( Swedish Goshawk Trap.)  Developed by Heinz Meing for trapping Accipters.  This trap is basically used to trap Goshawks, Coopers, and the occasional Sharp Shinned.  Most often baited with pigeons.  Having this trap without the proper permits will put you in deep SH$#t  Red Tailed Hawks are sometimes known to come into the trap but not on a normal basis since the Red Tailed Hawk's prey is based mostly on mammals.  Although there is no such thing as a Chicken hawk, the Coopers Hawk has been given this nick name by the old time farmers.  Coopers hawks are true Accipters that prey mostly on AVIAN species.  Although the Red Tailed Hawk is completely opportunistic it will not waste its valuable energy on a tail chase, that my friend would be the coopers.  RedTails are not stupid and they know that a quail or pheasant is too fast to chase.  They may at time try to take one on the rise during a flush but rarely.  They will however plow into one that is trapped (such as your pen situation) or one that appears to be injured.  More than likely Steve, you have several passage coopers hanging around your pens or migrating birds stopping by for an easy meal.  Both Red Tailed Hawks and Coopers migrate but not all of them will.  I'm not sure where your located but some migrators from further north may decide to take up residents in your area until scared off by the residential adults.  You are sure to have resident birds year round.  Passage birds will attack your pens since your birds appear to be trapped and the immature hawks will show complete lack of fear trying to stir them up.  I don't know if this is a year round problem you are having or you notice this more in mid summer to November.  If the latter is true than you have immature and fall migrators invading your pen.  Not that you would, but if you shoot one or set up any type of leghold trap among others such as the SGHT your asking for more trouble than its worth.  Not only can they put you under the jail but the fines alone are extreme.  I don't know if you have to have a license to operate a pheasant farm but they can take that license away as well.   Warning to all, it would be wise not to post about shooting, or trapping any bird of prey.  You would be surprised who reads this site and just the slightest mention of the above discussions will land a Game Warden at your property.  I know people on this board take alot of care, time, and money on their birds and will do the utmost to keep them safe and yet they should, but trapping or shooting birds of prey must be avoided and other means need to be looked into.  I think I can give you a couple of pointers that will possibly help you.  Hawks and Owls do not get along.  A Great Horned Owl will hunt down a Redtailed hawk just as quick as it would a pheasant.  A GHO is a natural enemy of all North American Hawks.  They are more powerful and weigh more than the hawks.  Try putting a couple of GHO Dummies on perches around your pens.  This will keep the hawks leary about approaching.  They may perch 30 yds away but they will be hesitant to make in.  Second, I know you have contacted Fish and Wildlife, but I can assure you they are not going to send you or anybody a permit to trap or remove the hawks because they are killing livestock or poultry or whatever.  What you might want to do is get ahold of some license falconers in your area and they will be glad to come out and trap the hawks then relocate them.  If you have problems finding a falconer, contact me and I will find one in your area and see if there is something I can do.  I'm sure I can find somebody.  One of the reason why these birds are so strongly protected is because 70% of them die in their first year.  Although there seems like alot of these birds around, it wouldn't take much to put them in a critical state since their mortality rate is high in the first place.  I didn't mean to get on a soap box and preach and I know you didn't insinuate any harm but there is better ways of dealing with the problem then what some people have mentioned.   Sorry for the rant, If there is a way I can help you let me know.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on May 21, 2006, 05:41:11 AM
Boy oh boy.  Just talking about this stuff can get you nailed.  The trap you are referring to is a SGHT. ( Swedish Goshawk Trap.)  Developed by Heinz Meing for trapping Accipters.  This trap is basically used to trap Goshawks, Coopers, and the occasional Sharp Shinned.  Most often baited with pigeons.  Having this trap without the proper permits will put you in deep SH$#t  Red Tailed Hawks are sometimes known to come into the trap but not on a normal basis since the Red Tailed Hawk's prey is based mostly on mammals.  Although there is no such thing as a Chicken hawk, the Coopers Hawk has been given this nick name by the old time farmers.  Coopers hawks are true Accipters that prey mostly on AVIAN species.  Although the Red Tailed Hawk is completely opportunistic it will not waste its valuable energy on a tail chase, that my friend would be the coopers.  RedTails are not stupid and they know that a quail or pheasant is too fast to chase.  They may at time try to take one on the rise during a flush but rarely.  They will however plow into one that is trapped (such as your pen situation) or one that appears to be injured.  More than likely Steve, you have several passage coopers hanging around your pens or migrating birds stopping by for an easy meal.  Both Red Tailed Hawks and Coopers migrate but not all of them will.  I'm not sure where your located but some migrators from further north may decide to take up residents in your area until scared off by the residential adults.  You are sure to have resident birds year round.  Passage birds will attack your pens since your birds appear to be trapped and the immature hawks will show complete lack of fear trying to stir them up.  I don't know if this is a year round problem you are having or you notice this more in mid summer to November.  If the latter is true than you have immature and fall migrators invading your pen.  Not that you would, but if you shoot one or set up any type of leghold trap among others such as the SGHT your asking for more trouble than its worth.  Not only can they put you under the jail but the fines alone are extreme.  I don't know if you have to have a license to operate a pheasant farm but they can take that license away as well.   Warning to all, it would be wise not to post about shooting, or trapping any bird of prey.  You would be surprised who reads this site and just the slightest mention of the above discussions will land a Game Warden at your property.  I know people on this board take alot of care, time, and money on their birds and will do the utmost to keep them safe and yet they should, but trapping or shooting birds of prey must be avoided and other means need to be looked into.  I think I can give you a couple of pointers that will possibly help you.  Hawks and Owls do not get along.  A Great Horned Owl will hunt down a Redtailed hawk just as quick as it would a pheasant.  A GHO is a natural enemy of all North American Hawks.  They are more powerful and weigh more than the hawks.  Try putting a couple of GHO Dummies on perches around your pens.  This will keep the hawks leary about approaching.  They may perch 30 yds away but they will be hesitant to make in.  Second, I know you have contacted Fish and Wildlife, but I can assure you they are not going to send you or anybody a permit to trap or remove the hawks because they are killing livestock or poultry or whatever.  What you might want to do is get ahold of some license falconers in your area and they will be glad to come out and trap the hawks then relocate them.  If you have problems finding a falconer, contact me and I will find one in your area and see if there is something I can do.  I'm sure I can find somebody.  One of the reason why these birds are so strongly protected is because 70% of them die in their first year.  Although there seems like alot of these birds around, it wouldn't take much to put them in a critical state since their mortality rate is high in the first place.  I didn't mean to get on a soap box and preach and I know you didn't insinuate any harm but there is better ways of dealing with the problem then what some people have mentioned.   Sorry for the rant, If there is a way I can help you let me know.

tanaro2,

Thanks for your insite on this. At the present time I seem to have this under control. 

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: tanaro2 on May 21, 2006, 11:44:23 AM
Glad to hear it.  Mid summer and fall you may see a pickup on the birds coming into your area.  I am a little worried when I put my first batch of quail in the pens I built.  Not because of the birds of prey but for all the other critters that lurk around.  I am building wire bottom pens that will keep the cages off the ground which should keep anything from trying to get in.  Now, I don't know how far coons will go but any advice on what not to do would be helpful in setting these pens up.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: CharlieHorse on May 21, 2006, 03:45:33 PM
High mortality rate or not, there comes a time when an animal is no longer "endangered".  I suppose that they'll wait until there is one for each fence post instead of the 1 for every 10 fence posts there is around here,  before some elected educated idiot whom is doubledipping decides that they are no longer "endangered" and will be generous enough to let you pay them a fee to exterminate a couple of them.

As for high mortality rate, that applies to most wild animals.

Just like the deer and turkeys in my nick of the woods, there needs to be an open season. There comes a time when regulation has proven itself successful, has served its purpose, and the noose needs to be loosened.

Although I do realize that caged birds is a manmade invitation for hawks, etc., but the wild ones don't hardly stand a chance around here for the owls and hawks are in abundance. I can't even find a rabbit, other than a few with their heads missing. They may be scarce in some places. Maybe they all moved here?
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: tanaro2 on May 21, 2006, 05:11:05 PM
  Rabbit populations go in cycles  the fact is Red Tailed hawks prey more on mice than any other prey species.  Another fact is.. Red tails are not very succesfull at catching rabbits.  They miss more than they connect.  Rabbit populations are scarcely (and I do mean scarcely) affected by birds of prey.   If you are finding headless rabbits than you are talking about the wrong predator.  The head is the last thing a hawk will eat.  They will go through the softest part of the body.  More often than not they will start from the anal area and work into the lungs and heart. Now if you were worried about the mole, vole, and rat population then I could see your concern.  Coopers hawks are much to small to consistantly take a rabbit so that rules them out.  Also, if you think that the hawks, especially the Red Tailed is hurting the population of wild game birds then you are misinformed.  Red Tails will rarely if ever chase a wild game bird that is not injured or sick.  Too much energy to burn, and often ending in failure.  They much rather sit on a telephone pole looking for field mice and such.  Why should they lift a ban on Birds of Prey??  The reason why there was a ban in the first place is because misinformed farmers and such were shooting them down left and right untill the numbers were in serious jepardy.  Its pretty apparent that some people still think this way, and thus the ban is still in place.  What I meant by the high mortality rate is this.  A coyotee is more to blame for rabbit and game bird populations than the Hawks.  A coyotte will have a litter of several pups and most will survive.  Most RTH will only have 1-2 chicks make it out of the nest.  Out of 10 birds that successfully left the nest in your state, only 3 will make it through the winter on average.  Thus the ban.  If the ban was lifted and people were allow to kill the birds then it wouldn't be long before they would drasticly decline.  There would be more being killed off then the bird can recover from.  I understand your distress if you are having some of your penned birds being pegged by hawks.  I wouldn't be to happy either.  But keep in mind, when you present a situation like that, its like ringing the dinner bell for all predators.  Hunters kill more Game birds than Hawks, coyotees, skunks, weasels and racoons combined on a yearly basis.  I don't know if you sell any of your game birds or not but I do know that thousands of Falconers order from alot of Gamebird Breeders year round.  Just wouldn't make good buisness sense to be talking about killing off hawks.  Sure, there are some bans that are far outdated and need to be lifted, but the ban on killing birds of prey is not one of them.  Too many stupid and careless people out there that shoot them for the hell of it.  Lift the ban and you will have more idiots stopping by every tenth pole you mentioned, taking pot shots at them because they think its fun.  That is where the problem is.  Not on the people trying to protect their poultry and such, but the ones who are morons, who think shooting Hawks out of the sky or on poles is funny.   Maybe you can see my point of view.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: La.bowhunter on May 25, 2006, 02:24:46 AM
i agree more than any of you know me my self will be a licenced falconry soon and if you think that a 22 or a 17 cal is what you need to fix a hawk you a retard and maybe need to shove those up your A$$ to get the picture here and that swgt you have you shouldn't because those are only to be use in the sport of falconry not for some hick farmer to use to catch and kill valuable birds of prey and i hope you lose business for saying some thing stupid like that all you inbreed bastard that use leg hold traps on post sit on them cause your worth less and i hope some one nock some sense into you and learn you fact before you open your hick mouth

(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/chapel/bigfrogs/bigoh.gif)


right or wrong thats not needed here.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: pamike on May 25, 2006, 02:39:10 AM
Yo,

I didn't read all of this topic yet, But I am 100% sure you went a little overboard on that last post. I understand that you are passionate about falconry but there is no need to call names on here or any other forum for that matter. You might want to tone it down a bit and edit your post befor someone does it for you. A little restraint in how you use your words will get you further ahead. I read your reply and all I remembered after about 2 minutes was the derogatory comments. I am not a moderator or an administrator of this forum, But I am the administrator on another forum. I absolutely will not tolerate that kind of behavior there. I am not trying to embarass you or yell at you, I am just trying to give you some advice on how these forums are usually run.

mike
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: pamike on May 25, 2006, 03:06:04 AM
Yo, Now that I have had a chance to read the entire subject, I stand by what I said before. I only saw a few people "suggesting" leghold traps or shooting the birds. I did not see where anyone said that is thier actual method. I do not agree with harming endangered species, but I believe that we have an obligation to our birds to protect them from predators whether they be furred or feathered. Our birds very survival depend on us protecting them until the day that we sell, or eat them ourselves. We also have an obligation to our families to protect thier livelihood and/or food supply. I will be building my pens in an area where there are possible predators, however I can easily deal with the land animals. I have no doubt that I can deal with the birds of prey around be. There are some owls, hawks and at least one osprey in my area. My best defense will be prevention. I will be using some of that tackless stripping for carpets anywhere the birds might want to land. If one lands on that stuff one it will not want to again. I used to lay carpet and I know for a fact that stuff hurts like hell. That is just one idea, I know we can come up with more legal ideas.

mike
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: CharlieHorse on May 25, 2006, 04:21:59 AM
pamike,

  I'll have to say that is the first time that I personally have seen such a childish, unlegable, derogatory post on this forum. I think they should be banned from the site. That's out of control.

  Hopefully the whole thread doesn't get deleted because of some idiot.  :laugh:

  On the other hand, your statement about using carpet tack strips reminded me of some stainless steel spike strips that I was hired to install on the City building ledges with my bucket truck to control pigeons. These strips were about 3' long and had about 4" stainless "needles" sticking out in every direction. The City had purchased them, so I don't know the cost of them. The springy wires were so thin that they weren't even noticeable from the ground. Just a 2 inch piece cut off would be plenty for the top of a post. So, if a person could acquire just one 3' strip, it would go along way on posts. It hurt me just to look at it! Needless to say................no more pigeons!!
 
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on May 25, 2006, 05:58:10 AM
i agree more than any of you know me my self will be a licenced falconry soon and if you think that a 22 or a 17 cal is what you need to fix a hawk you a retard and maybe need to shove those up your A$$ to get the picture here and that swgt you have you shouldn't because those are only to be use in the sport of falconry not for some hick farmer to use to catch and kill valuable birds of prey and i hope you lose business for saying some thing stupid like that all you inbreed bastard that use leg hold traps on post sit on them cause your worth less and i hope some one nock some sense into you and learn you fact before you open your hick mouth


What we have here is a failure to communicate.  This little individual, 14Yoquailfarmer, should be spending more time learning his communication skills in school, and being in bed by 9pm. 

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

pamike,

  I'll have to say that is the first time that I personally have seen such a childish, unlegable, derogatory post on this forum. I think they should be banned from the site. That's out of control.

  Hopefully the whole thread doesn't get deleted because of some idiot.  :laugh:

I have been a member of this site for as long as I can remember, and through 3 BB changes when this was own by Shawn. We have lost valued long time member’s over the years due to the influx of immature adolescence.

I do hope that Larry the new site owner will stamp this members ticket cancelled and send him/her on his/her way, and remove his/her post in this topic.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm


Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: jchiar on May 25, 2006, 06:15:25 AM
Steve ,sounds like a game plan to me
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on May 25, 2006, 06:23:15 AM
Ahhhhhhh, someone just took my karma away John! Welll what do ya know, I guess the truth hurts. How long before my karma drops again?

John, looks like rain here with t-storms during the day. No hawks around and all the young birds are doing fine.

How is it in your neck of the woods?

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: jchiar on May 25, 2006, 07:55:06 AM
I'm in nj working supposed to hit high 70's today and sunny.i guess my karma is going down the tubes ,truth hurts   :laugh: who is the little nit -wit that posted the tirade??? oops there  goes another point  :laugh:
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: CharlieHorse on May 25, 2006, 12:55:19 PM
LOL!!  I guess that a few of us are in the same boat! My Karma keeps going down hill too.  I hope this doesn't get to the point that no one will read my post because of my "negative feedback"?  LOL!  I hope that I don't make anybody else mad!   Geeeezzzz!   LOL!

I'm glad that I'm not alone!

Thanks!

Now back to the birds.....................................
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: pamike on May 25, 2006, 02:03:06 PM
although this is mikes user id this is mike's wife mary replying this time. i time to time visit this forum on mike's thing so hello to all cause i haven't said much on here and i really like this forum i'm learning alot and i thank you for haveing us here. now with all that said...

 i have been watching some of the stuff going on. i must say i am appauled at all of this. joey i want to know if you kiss your mom with that mouth? if that was my 14 year old you would be in some serious trouble for talking to adults or anyone for that matter like that. it is childish. i have 5 kids from 2-10 and none of them are or would ever talk like that to someone else. it is down right dissrespectful and your mother should have taught you if you don't have something nice to say then keep it to yourself.

you are blameing others for reccomended ideas to void unwanted preditors i find that funny since you are a trapper you are no better. i personally am a trapper and i find it embaraseing as a fellow trapper to know there are trappers out there like you.  people like you is what gives us trappers a bad name. have you ever stopped to think of the way we have to put down animals trapping? it's not nice nor pretty but it's not wrong either and it is leagal and sometimes necisary that we must do it.

trapping is done as a means for me as food, clothing and money. sometimes it's the only way i have to get my kid's stuff for christmas or clothes and such but it's what i have to do for us to make it. these people are trying to make a liveing, feed their family or what have you everyone has their reasons. in order to hunt live or raise anything you need to learn respect for yourself, the animals, protecting the animals and respect your fellow people. without that noone has that right to hunt, trap or raise an animal ect.

i love animals especially birds and noone that i know of loves and protects them as much as i do. i understand your frustrations but let me tell you something. a prediter is just that i don't care what it is. my family depends on my chicks or birds for food so if that means i have to trap something or what not i'm gonna do it. i don't care what your beliefs are and you will never change that and i'm sure many would agree. people come first, then pets and livestock or whatever we have to have food to live and prediters are way at the bottom no matter what it is. so you need to learn what priorities are more important. your beliefs or protecting your family and the food chain.

do you mean to tell me if you were starving to death and all you had was like 3 chickens to eat you would rather die of starveing to death than for you to protect your only food supply from a hawk or an other prediter? um ok if you would rather starve to death than boy there is something seriously wrong with you. sit and think seriously about what you have said. it does not make sence and you are in a fantacy world. these people are kind enough to help others out where as you are only being selfish. i am totally for protecting wildlife especially endangered ones but like others have said there are other means to control them when they are out of control. had you paid attention you would have seen we all want what's best to protect all of them noone is purposely doing anything or sugesting killing them. 
thanks for letting me rant i hope i didn't offend anyone,
mary

Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: ChrisCarreiro on May 25, 2006, 04:12:10 PM
14Yoquailfarmer,

  I have been a member for about 2 months on this forum, and this is the only forum i have been on where people are respectful towards one another whether they know eachother or not. Everyone is polite, friendly, and happy to help. Everyone has their own way of doing things, this type of hobby is individualized for lack of a better word. It is molded to your interest, you might not like what someone suggests, but its just a suggestion that they have most likely used and it worked for them. So dont jump down their throat for wanting to help. Personally after that atttack you made, i dont think anyone will want to help you anymore. You talk to us like we are trash, and that is what you will be treated like. If you want respect you have to earn it. I think you owe an apology to this forum there buddy!

Chris
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: 14Yoquailfarmer on May 25, 2006, 04:15:55 PM
all ready did  :laugh:
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: PSUQuailer on May 25, 2006, 09:32:40 PM
Can anyone explain to me what happened hear.  If you don't want to thats fine but i can't understand what happened.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: sp2207 on May 25, 2006, 09:39:37 PM
Look back about 13 posts 


Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: CharlieHorse on May 25, 2006, 11:21:55 PM
Can anyone explain to me what happened hear.  If you don't want to thats fine but i can't understand what happened.



Read.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: tanaro2 on May 26, 2006, 12:09:23 AM
Apparently some people were having trouble with birds of prey invading their game bird pens.  Now, not knowing alot about gamebirds myself and trying to learn, I found this topic on Hawks and Owls while searching through the board.  Being a Falconer and reading some misconceptions about the birds I thought I would offer some insight and ideas (legally) how to solve the problem that some of the members seemed to be having.  It appeared that some of the advice given (sarcastically or not) were major legal issues that could result in some people getting in hot water.  The law is the law.  I didn't make it up, and you would be surprised at what all the proper officials could do if they found such illegal activity.  Having a hawk trap on your person or property can result in loosing your gamebird permits if its required by your state.  Just talking about ways to trap the Hawks could get you investigated.  This is all that I tried to lend to the conversation for information that some people may not know about.  Instead I got more replies with more misinformed info and explained to the replies in a mature conversation.  Well instead of being thanked for what I deemed useful info under the circumstances, I am now labled a KNOW IT ALL.  I  guess some people can't handle facts and name calling is there only defense.  To make matters far worse, another WANT TO BE falconer decided to make an a$$ out of himself and started a bunch of name calling.  Total immature and unnecessary.  The post was removed and rightfully so.  Nonetheless, somehow, someway, I got grouped with this idiot since we apparently have falconry in common and I myself have been quoted as asking a bunch of stupid question (2 to be exact) and a know it all.  As for the other poster.......I can't speak for him and it was wrong to post what he did and made all falconers look like A$$e$.  I personally do not know him and I am ashamed of his actions along with several other Falconers who use this board as well.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: birdguy888 on May 29, 2006, 02:49:47 AM
Ok everyone, first off I was asked to join this group to help resolve the raptor (bird of prey issue).  I'm very open minded but I have a mouth that matches it.  I have been a falconer for 22 years and i have also raised quail, pigeons and phesants.  I'm not going to fill your computer screen with junk, only the truth and some remedies so here we go:

First off stop shooting the raptors.  The fact is they were here long before you and they need to eat.  You guys usually have thousands of quail and hundreds, if not thousands, of other game birds.  Loosing a few isn't gong to harm your flock when you consider they kill and eat each other!  Game birds are canabalistic and can be quite violent towards each other.

Eating time:  Raptors eat at an oportunistic rate.  If food is available they will kill enough to eat; they do NOT kill for fun.  Owls, specifically the nocturnal ones like great horned, long eared, short eared and barn owls only kill at night but will occassionaly kill during the day in the summer when they have young to feed.

These birds are all protected heavily by State and Federal law.  All it takes is one person on this forum to turn your username in and the Moderator is required by law to release your information.  Killing any protected species under State and Federal law is up to a $2000 fine and up to 2 years in prison (not your local jail, but actual prison) for every offense they find you have committed.

Migration:  I'm sure you notice more problems for about a month or two during the spring and fall.  This is migration when birds are moving in and moving out.  Some birds stay and do not migrate either because the species does not generally migrate or they are a very established pair that simply chooses not too.  All raptors are territorial but to different extents.  Except for the accipiters like the goshawk which you'll NEVER see at your game farm, all other hawks simply dive at a perp that is near their nest and do not make contact.  Their biggest issue is screaming at you.  Someone mentioned they have seen up to 5 raptors on their flight.  This is either during migration or babies that have fled the nest and are learning to hunt.  75% of raptors die from starvation within 1-3 months after leaving the nest.  You know how you feel when hungry, imagine starving to death!

Remedies:  Putting a solid, cheap roof over the top of the flight will help drastically.  Those coragated fiber glass sheets are cheap and work well while still allowing light to go through.  Someone mentioned putting fake snakes on top or using garden hoses......raptors eat snakes so that is pointless and nothing is that afraid of a garden hose!  Many people use those fake owls which work ok if you get the one with the bobble head and it needs to be moved to a different location every few days or the other birds get used to it.  ALL raptors are terrified of great horned owls because the owls kill and eat every other raptor, including golden eagles!!!

Another thing that works well is those round, smooth mirror balls.  The light reflecting off of them scares away most raptors.

Still having problems.....fish and game or game and fish will NOT remove the raptors from your property but there is a LEGAL way to do this every fall (in Utah it is from Sept. 1 to Jan. 31 of each year).  Call your local game department and ask them for a list of falconers in your state and call them and ask if they will trap on your property in the fall when trapping season starts for falconers.  If they aren't going to trap that season, leave your name and number with them and I can guarantee you'll be getting phone calls from their friends.  Falconers can legally trap these birds each fall which can remove these birds from your property using specific traps designed to easily trap them safely so that we can train and use them for hunting.  This way makes you happy and makes the falconer happy too.  Each "class" or level of falconer can take certain birds so you can expect to have several people on your property at different times trapping these birds for you.  The most common birds your having problems with are gong to be red-tail hawks, cooper's hawks, sharp-shinned hawks, prairie falcons, peregrine falcons (depending on where you live), merlins and great horned owls.  Depending on the falconers class, all these birds are legal for falconers to take.  If they catch one of these birds that is out of their class designation, all it takes is a phone call from one of them to another falconer and the bird can be transfered to them.  If haggards (adult birds) are caught, simply ask the falconer to relocate the bird far away to a proper location.  Ask them to do this so that it won't bother your flock.  Falconers are more than happy to do this because having the haggards alive provides more birds for us falconers in the future.

While some of you would never admit it, raptors are  facinating to see and watch hunt.  The fact is if you are one of these people (and I know you won't openly admit it here), use it to your advantage.  Again, on game farms, there are always old, sick or injured game birds in your flock that are cull birds and will be killed anyway.  In order to help keep the raptors away from your flights, take these cull birds out several yards away (or as far as you can take it) from your flight and if they still have a lot of flight in them, clip the flight feathers on their wings and set them on the ground and walk away.  This way the raptors will kill and eat these birds and will leave your good ones alone.  Once again, when the raptor is full, it won't kill again until hungry.

I hope this has helped and I'll check this board once every night to answer any questions so if you have a questions please feel free to ask and I'll answer it.
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks...There back.........
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on December 08, 2006, 08:29:31 PM
Well here we are once again, 12-08-06 the Red-Tailed and it seems Coopers Hawk have been hanging around the pen.

I have had 3 related pheasant deaths in the pen. I have also had two pheasants with their legs caught in the top flight netting. Needless to say, those two bird didn't make it. I guess they died from stress and hanging upside down.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: stewaw on December 10, 2006, 09:27:10 AM
Steve,
  Sorry for your losses. I'm seeing a lot more hawks here also. That time of year and around here we had a very tough drought that reduced forage and prey species so the hawks are having a very tough time making a living.  Normally during this time I have my chickens penned as I hate finding those three month old nests during spring cleaning. This year I've gone ahead and left them out free range with the thought that I'd rather sacrifice a few game hens as opposed to damage to the pens and potential loss of game birds.  So far I haven't had any damage and I'm hoping that late rains we got will result in a bloom of prey species that will take some of the pressure off of my yard.

David
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Pheasant Hollow Farm on December 10, 2006, 04:57:20 PM
Steve,
  Sorry for your losses. I'm seeing a lot more hawks here also. That time of year and around here we had a very tough drought that reduced forage and prey species so the hawks are having a very tough time making a living.  Normally during this time I have my chickens penned as I hate finding those three month old nests during spring cleaning. This year I've gone ahead and left them out free range with the thought that I'd rather sacrifice a few game hens as opposed to damage to the pens and potential loss of game birds.  So far I haven't had any damage and I'm hoping that late rains we got will result in a bloom of prey species that will take some of the pressure off of my yard.

David



Hi David!!

A Happy belated Thanksgiving to you and a Merry Christmas!

The hawk problem seems to settle down when someone dump this huge Chicken Rooster on my property back in June. This jet-black rooster has feathers going down on each side of his legs. He roams the property as if he owns it.

The rooster has also made himself comfortable in side the barn and goes to roost at 4pm each night.

While I was out this morning around 8am butchering the doe I got yesterday at 4.55pm. I had a Red-Tail Hawk perched high in the pines behind the barn. I guess being out there with 3 dogs curb the hawk’s appetite.

Yesterday was the first time I had a chance to get out. The doe weighed in at 120 lbs. I took her out with a Winchester 94 in the trapper model with a 16” barrel and in 44mag. The distance was about 60 yards.

I usually hang the deer for 7-14 days weather permitting. It got cold enough last night. 20 degrees but the temps by noon were in the upper 40 and finally hit 54 by 2pm. So needles to say, I had to butcher her up.

How are the birds doing? I have never in my life seen it this slow. I only sold 4 birds, and they wanted the birds for a Christmas dinner. I still have over 800 birds in my pen. If this keeps up, I will be eating birds on a daily basis for the next 4 months!!!!

Well David, nice hearing from ya and Have a wonderful Christmas!!

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: stewaw on December 18, 2006, 07:35:26 PM
Hey Steve,
  Sorry so long to respond.....got slapped down about two weeks ago and thought my insides were going to explode. Turned out to be a "defective" gall bladder that had to come out.  The recovery has taken less time than the diagnosis/schedule/surgery.  I think my surgeon moonlights as a vet and it's early calving season here.
  Birds are doing ok in fact I've only lost one adult since July and I think that one was just one of those things since I've had no problems out of his pen mates.
  As for deer, this has been a banner year at our household- my 12yo Daughter got her first deer (5 point) and I've gotten three bucks.  My largest for the season is a 120 class 8 point I shot out of my yard on opening morning.......I had been suffering from bronchitis and couldn't bear to go into the woods with all the hacking and coughing but I also couldn't pass up opening morning so I just took my coffee out to the bee hives and watched the sun come up thinking I might get a shot across the pasture. About 30 min after daylight I heard the goats give their intruder "wheeze" and looked up to see the nice 8 pt walking nose to the ground through their pen obviously on the trail of a last night doe.  I had to wait until he cleared the goats and the chain link fence and hammered him from about 45 yds....... Wife and kids come boiling out of the house at the shot and I look down at the steaming coffee sitting on the beehive, the sun rising and the beautiful deer and remark- It truely doesn't get much better than this.

David
Title: Re: Red tailed Hawks and Owls
Post by: Redhorse on December 21, 2006, 11:24:20 AM
Cool story...I ALMOST got a deer right behind my bee hives one year. I walked back to the stand and went past my hives on my way. It was warm, and a few bees were active...I was so focused on the bees, I never saw the deer standing 15 yds behind the hives (it's brushy but still).

My son (11) got his second buck this year, a nine point. Last years (his first deer) was a 120 class 8 point and I thought he was gonna be spoiled after that. He almost passed this years buck because it was "kinda small".

Glad to hear you are doing OK after the medical problems, and it's great you got your girl out there this year. My oldest daughter is 9 and she is chomping at the bit. She already sits in the duck blind with me, and helps call them in. I think next year she will get to start shooting also (she's already a good shot).