That Quail Place Forum
Raising Gamebirds => Build It Yourself => Topic started by: legacy on January 29, 2006, 04:42:24 PM
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Hello I am very interested in building a surrogator, Was hoping someone could provide a set of plans, instructions, bill of materials ??? Anything would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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What is a surrogator?
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Go to the below link. They sell them and tell you all about it.
http://www.quailrestoration.com/surrogator.htm
Anyway, what it amounts to is just an oversized brooder that is self contained so that it can be placed in the field, rather than the barn. It's size is based off allowing the birds to reach 5-6 weeks of age and still have ample space inside the brooder.
As far as the heating elements, you could order the guts from a standard LP room brooder unit, or, if you are lucky enough and have electric close enough to where you are placing it (probably not) you could use an electric heat element.
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I have a friend getting ready to buy two. I'm going to see if he'll let get parts and design specs. If I get them I'll pass them along.
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Did you ever find any information about the Surrogator??? Iam interested in doing the same thing as you. I just can not afford that type of $$.
Thanks
Theo
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i think you can make one, for little $$$.. use a 40lb propane tank, with a propane camping heat lamp.(like !$25.00 at walmart) for the heat.( you would have to set up a temp. controller or something) nipple waters(PVC). a feeder.. and put it in a nice little file box with 1/4 wire on the bottom. about..+/- $50.00 beans.
I'm thing about making the heater for my pen.. no electric.. hope this helps?
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I have a good size propane tank just sitting around my place I could use. Just wondering if any you have anymore detailed idea about how to make one.
$1500 seems like a lot considering you must supply the propane tank and feed and H2O. From what I have seen it looks like they are supplying a mesh crate for protection right?
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Did you ever find any information about the Surrogator??? Iam interested in doing the same thing as you. I just can not afford that type of $$.
I doubt that you'll be getting any info from this fella:
Re: surrogator
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006
Name: jefftke
Last Active: May 11, 2006, 09:41:01 PM
I have no experience with the "surrogator" concept. Although, I do believe that the gas control valve, heater, and thermostat controls would probably be your most expensive and most difficult items to obtain.
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ok thanks. I found this pics on another website. check it out.
http://www.quailclub.com/Surrogator/PGSurrogator/QuailSurrogator/index.html
Theo713
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A little off topic but not much, for after the surrogtor I like the looks of their feeder:
nuts, the pic didnt come through, it holds 200lbs of feed/seed, is priced competitively with other large units. Check out the url above.
QRT Game Bird Feeder
Recent research suggests that supplemental feeding increases nest productivity and improves survival and reproduction of quail!
Click here to read the latest research on Supplemental Feeding!
Protect your quail year round with the QRT Game Bird Feeder
All 4 legs of the feeder are designed with a feed trough. By having the feed troughs under the unit, the feed stays dry and the birds feed in protection.
As a result of this recent research, QRT introduces its revolutionary feeder! It is designed specifically to feed both grains and crumbly type feeds, such as the hen laying formula mentioned in the latest supplemental feeding research! Because the feed troughs in this exclusively designed feeder are protected, unlike today's typical feeders, feed is moisture-free, reducing clogging and producing less waste than with other feeders. The plastic construction discourages condensation, which keeps your feed dry. This innovative feeder is also designed to discourage use by turkeys. All of which saves you money and time! This feeder will set the standard for feeders to come!
The QRT Game Bird Feeder will also adjust to feed different types and sizes of seed, such as corn, milo, wheat and soybeans! Because of its large holding capacity (between 200 and 250 lbs depending on seed weight) it is low maintenance and requires less attention from you! This sturdy, UV-protected feeder designed out of polyethylene plastic will last at least 20 years in normal conditions. Be sure to add this indispensable item to your quail management program! Best benefits result from one feeder for every ten acres of usable property!
The QRT Game Bird Feeder
Custom built Game Bird feeder
Holds between 200 and 250 lbs of feed
Protects quail from predators/elements
Rain protected feed troughs
Large fill hole
Plastic construction reduces condensation
Feeds different size and types of feed
UNIT PRICE: $199.00
Plus shipping
Please contact contact QRT for shipping rates when purchasing more than 2 units
State shipping to Continental USALASKAHAWAII
Order yours online now!
QRT Game Bird Feeder
Feeds all size grain
Supplemental feeding
contact us | hunt club consulting | free brochure | success stories | shop | home | view cart
Wildlife Management Technologies
2525 N. Loch Lomond Ct.
Wichita, Kansas 67228
(316)200-0134
contact@quailrestoration.com
©2006 Wildlife Management Technologies
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It must be the cabin feaver that gets me thinking about building this thing ??
Anybody made their own yet??
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I wouldnt, the 'Johnny Tower" can be adapted to much the same thing.
Called Johnny Towers because they look like a John sitting out in the field. They are used to recall Quail used in training, have a raised, usually wire cage with a wire funnel into it, and the birds can go into the building for feed and water. You could arrange it to pour feed and water into it on a blind side so the birds wouldnt see you, and at five weeks or older release them. You'd need either a cord for a brooder lamp or propane tank for a gas brooder. I'd rather spend the money on one of these then twice what the Johnny Tower would cost.
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They had an add today on the program Gundog on the outdoor channel, interesting ad, showed a release being made from it.
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I am thinking about building a surrogator, dosn't look to difficult. I think this thing will work very well. I would appreciate any plans or input that you may have about it. Thanks for your help!!!
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I am thinking about building a surrogator, dosn't look to difficult. I think this thing will work very well. I would appreciate any plans or input that you may have about it. Thanks for your help!!!
Be sure to take plenty of digital pictures and post them for us as you go. Then we'll know what to do and what not to do too. ^-^ Not that I personally am interested in building one, but many others are. I've got plenty of projects to keep me busy.
As I stated before:
I do believe that the gas control valve, heater, and thermostat controls would probably be your most expensive and most difficult items to obtain.
s016
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I will take and post pics when I get it built I'm sure it won't look as good as the original but as long as it does the job that's all I need. Thanks for your help, CharlieHorse.
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how is the progress on the surrogator? have you found an lp gas burner that will work? thanks,
auburngsp
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I found a small propane brooder called infraconic. The I- 10 is a 10000 BTU brooder. The usual brooders seem like they would be to hot. The I-10 or I-17 are around $250.00. Has anyone else found any small brooders. Does the surrogator company make their own?
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they have this one at walmart...they are on sale for around $25.00.
Technical Details..
8,000-14,000 Btu propane radiant heater
For outdoor use; heats up to 400 square feet
Variable output; provides up to 30 hours heat at high setting on 20-pound cylinder
Mounts directly to 5- to 20-pound propane cylinders (not included)
Adequate ventilation must be provided; 1-year limited warranty
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they have this one at walmart...they are on sale for around $25.00.
That dude probably isn't thermostatically controlled is it?
The usual brooders seem like they would be to hot.
That's what thermostats are for.
Wouldn't the commercially sold "surragator" be thermostatically controlled? If not, you'd really be burning up some fuel wouldn't ya, if it ran around the clock?
The old floor furnaces had gas valves in them that didn't require any electricity to control them. They had a "millivolt" thermocouple that generated the electricicity from the pilot flame that was needed to operate the system.......including the thermostat.
The millivolt gas valves and thermocouples can still be purchased. Looks to me like one of these LP gas valves in conjunction with a radiant heater similar to the one above would be what a fella would need. Of course the millivolt gas valve isn't cheap and the thermocouples where about $60-70, but I've seen them last well over 50 years.
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I built 2. One with the paropane heater mentioned above. I went to a plumbing outfit and took the guts out of an propane water heater. Remove the burner and place the Mr. Heater on top. I used the pilot and thermocouple to contol the burner. I used a GQF thermometer to set my temperature by. The cost of propane made me go to plan B.
Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element.
PVC and nipple waterers.
55 gallon drom with facet to supply water.
55 gallon drum with 3 inch feeder tube to supply feed.
The deep cycle and one solar panel works well in TX. You may need 2 panels in colder weather.
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Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element
Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?
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Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element
Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?
No.
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If you are going to run something like that... I wouldn’t invert. When inverting there is a very large amount of wasted energy... Look into a dc powered heating element. I would think up of a better battery set up too... I would stay away from car batteries. But just my input. :angel:
sammy
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How much heat can ya get off of 100watt 12 volt bulbs? I used to use them in a trouble light that had alligator clips that clipped onto a battery. They look just like a 110v bulb with the same base (medium).
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I would use a set up with nichrome wire. nichrome wire is the wire used in toaster ovens. You can run Ac or Dc and it will work just fine. I can’t see light holding up, with Dc... A lot of heating elements, and other thing that pug into the wall(run off Ac) have inverters so they work off Dc. look into toaster ovens, r something a little bigger like a small pizza oven or something. This has me thinking now... j41
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This has me thinking now...
uh-oh!!
Don't burn the place down whatever you do! :-|
The 100w 12vdc bulbs I previously mentioned where tougher than I'll get out, and lasted forever it seemed. You be sure to let us know if you get anything cooked up, with pictures of course.
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Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element
Will the panels actually keep the system up and running around the clock?
No.
Sorry, I planned to come back, as soon as I did the math. Ran out of toes.
15 amp charger will keep up for 11 hours, if you have 12 hours of sun, and charger is 100% as claimed. In 7-10 days, battery would be flat. That is assuming heater is 200 watt, and on half of the time. Switching battery with fully charged every week would about keep up, if everything went as planned. When has that happened? Two cloudy days could kill your chicks. Warm enough weather, and you might make it.
With extreme insulation you might do OK. Most energy lost to conversion turns to heat, putting the inverter inside brooder would help. There are some pretty efficient inverters available. I know a guy who uses them. $700-$800 for 2000 watt continuous duty. I assume same quality is available in 500 watt size for about half price. I wouldn't count on cheap brands.
100 watt 12 volt bulb (incandescent) should produce about same heat/light as 100 watt 120 V AC. GQF element should be same wattage, regardless of voltage (I may be missing something). You may not have enough force behind it with 12. Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw Ehw (remember Horshack on welcome back Kotter) 12 volt ceramic heaters to pre heat cars on cold mornings. Wal-Mart I remember thinking "That's cheap, but I don't need one".
I'd build the first one "horse high, @$$ tight, and bull strong". Like the first Amana Radar Ranges. They had a magnetron that would fry a woolly Mammoth. We designed DC refrigerator units in '69-'71 for ice cream vending trucks. Two prototypes were still running as of 2003.
Use at least 45 amps of solar panels, you will then have 270 watt capacity on 12 hours daylight. Two true deep cycle batteries (connected in series, not parrelell). Inverter (if you use one) inside the brooder. With the brain I'm using, now, that should give you 4.5 days of continuous operation with no sunlight, assuming 200 watt draw. But that sounds preposterous (so did walking on the moon). Figuring escape velocity, thrust, and trajectory with a slide rule? Sure you did, uh huh!
Build it! Run it with solar panels, and thermostat disconnected (full on) and check remaining voltage continually. An amp meter would help a lot. If voltage drop is less than .20 volts per hour average (rate will accelerate) you will make it. If drop rate is higher, connect thermostat, and set temperature at 99F. With full charged (slow charge) battery, start unit at sundown. Check, and record voltage when possible, but especially right at sun up. If voltage drop averages less than .1 volt per hour, you're in great shape! At .1-.2 volts per hour, you're OK. This test should be done on fairly cool day, or with main unit (not panels) in the shade.
Connect solar panel at sun up. Check voltage hourly. Now is when things can get really subjective, so record sun conditions, and ambient temperature, so you can compare varied days. On a sunny day, with panels pointed properly, you should return to 13.75 volts by noon. or shortly after. Create a partly cloudy day, using sunshade (63%, or darker). If on partly cloudy day, you are at full charge at sunset, you're on your way. If you reach full charge by noon, you're doing great! If you return to full charge on a cloudy day before sundown, put some birds in it! If you get two or three cloudy days in a row, or sudden temperature drops go check on it. Take jumper cables, or generator/charger.
Once you've been through several bad times, weather wise, with excellent results, you can try to engineer your creation down to more affordable proportions for the next one.
Use caution, and check my figures with charts, or someone with recent experience. I'm faltering a bit. Can't even call back BTU conversion, or electrical horsepower (I think 720 watts, but not sure). 200 watts would be enough heat in a barn. Outdoors, in the wind? Too many variables for me to calculate.
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::)
I'm impressed! Not many people even know what a slide rule is. My grandfather could run one of those babies like a calculator.
I'd think that the ambient temperature, as you mentioned would be a huge factor in the longevity of the batteries holding up without a monsterous expensive solar panel?
I'm not in need of any sort of remote brooder heating system, but sure would like to get some self-sustained lighting back in my electric-less goat barn. One of the biggest problems I seen was the amount of cash that it takes to buy a decent good sized solar panel and the batteries.
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I'm going to start to build a surrogator soon. Has anyone come up with a way to build the gas heating system?
If so I would love to see some pictures and your spec. Thanks
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Check out the guys at crazyflyingwfarms.com they have experience with building a surrogator.
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I am also going to build a surrogator only I am hoping to raise pheasants. I was hoping someone had a suggestion on dimensions in relation to the number of birds and the temp for each week.
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I purchased most of the necessary items to build a surrogator. As far as the heater, the actual heater, thermostat and the such is a unit out of a trojan livestock tank heater. If you were to buy directly from the manufacturers of Surrogators, they would cost over $700, I believe. The web site for the Trojan heaters is www.trojanlivestock.com . You will need to call them directly and just order the heating unit which comes complete with heater, thermostat and you will need to buy a hose to connect to propane tank and a regulator. I believe that the heating unit cost around $215. These heaters have a pilot thus not requiring any electrical supply for lighting the heater.
As far as the material for the sides, top and bottom, I selected the 1/4" white poly board from our local ag supply store. My family has several of the surrogators that we have been using for a couple years and are very happy with the results however, I am getting tired of paying them $2500 or so for something that I can build for $500. I did get on the surrogator site and bought the porcelin cap that goes on top of the heater and their nipple waterer for about $60 total plus shipping.
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s98
That appears to be nothing more than a hot water heater gas control valve with a remote capillary tube rather than the probe that normally would screw back into the hot water tank to sense the water temperature. I wonder if a fella could use a regular hot water tank gas control valve?
The open flame pilot light could cause some issues.
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I purchased most of the necessary items to build a surrogator. As far as the heater, the actual heater, thermostat and the such is a unit out of a trojan livestock tank heater. If you were to buy directly from the manufacturers of Surrogators, they would cost over $700, I believe. The web site for the Trojan heaters is www.trojanlivestock.com . You will need to call them directly and just order the heating unit which comes complete with heater, thermostat and you will need to buy a hose to connect to propane tank and a regulator. I believe that the heating unit cost around $215. These heaters have a pilot thus not requiring any electrical supply for lighting the heater.
As far as the material for the sides, top and bottom, I selected the 1/4" white poly board from our local ag supply store. My family has several of the surrogators that we have been using for a couple years and are very happy with the results however, I am getting tired of paying them $2500 or so for something that I can build for $500. I did get on the surrogator site and bought the porcelin cap that goes on top of the heater and their nipple waterer for about $60 total plus shipping.
s144
Just wondering if you have put together a set of plans yet?
I'm looking to build a surrogator myself.
Thanks
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Come follow along as I learn how to use my surrogator to raise wild quail - http://www.raisingwildquail.com (http://www.raisingwildquail.com). I'm happy to share what I'm learning.
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Thats a great thread...thanks for sharing it with us...
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Jchotz,
What type of heater do you have on that? And do you have a link to where you got it? I am looking for something that is gas driven that I can use on a 200 or so raised quail brooder. Any help is appreciateed. New to this so trying to figure it out on my own..
Slayton
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Slayton,
I have the heater that came with the WMT unit. It's a propane unit - this is their store - http://wildlifemanagementtechnologies.com/Store/Category/9:Heaters.
Based on everything I see and read a "how to" video might be helpful. I'm in the process of recording everything this season on video and I'm going to stitch it together this winter.
I have a brief, three question survey that will help me make sure that I cover everything that folks want to know - http://raisingwildquail.com/surrogator-survey/
If you'll take the time to tell me what you want to learn more about, I'll make sure to send you a free copy when I complete it this Winter.
Thanks!
- Jeff
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Nothing like being a day late and a dollar short..... It has been just about a year that Slayton had ask the question;
Jchotz,
What type of heater do you have on that? And do you have a link to where you got it? I am looking for something that is gas driven that I can use on a 200 or so raised quail brooder. Any help is appreciateed. New to this so trying to figure it out on my own..
Slayton
and your reply 8.31.2011:
Slayton,
I have the heater that came with the WMT unit. It's a propane unit - this is their store - http://wildlifemanagementtechnologies.com/Store/Category/9:Heaters.
Based on everything I see and read a "how to" video might be helpful. I'm in the process of recording everything this season on video and I'm going to stitch it together this winter.
I have a brief, three question survey that will help me make sure that I cover everything that folks want to know - http://raisingwildquail.com/surrogator-survey/
If you'll take the time to tell me what you want to learn more about, I'll make sure to send you a free copy when I complete it this Winter.
Thanks!
- Jeff
Slayton is from Christoval Texas and you, are from Austin, TX
You'd be better off getting together then waiting almost a year to send a reply to the post.
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I built 2. One with the paropane heater mentioned above. I went to a plumbing outfit and took the guts out of an propane water heater. Remove the burner and place the Mr. Heater on top. I used the pilot and thermocouple to contol the burner. I used a GQF thermometer to set my temperature by. The cost of propane made me go to plan B.
Deep cycle battery.
15 amp Solar panel from Norther tools.
Thermostat from GQF.
200 watt inverter.
2 x100 watt lamps. or GQF 200 watt heating element.
PVC and nipple waterers.
55 gallon drom with facet to supply water.
55 gallon drum with 3 inch feeder tube to supply feed.
The deep cycle and one solar panel works well in TX. You may need 2 panels in colder weather.
Nice informative post. I have been searching for similar sort of system and finally got the detailed stuff..