That Quail Place Forum
Production and Business => Propagation - Advanced Science => Topic started by: skipper3905 on December 20, 2007, 09:03:12 PM
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I have about 400 acres in Palestine, TX. That is pretty deep in East Texas. Mostly woods but clearing off now and putting some in grain fields and some gamebird mix fields. Good cover and all in all pretty good habitat from what I read. Had quail there until a few years ago. Plan to start quail release late next spring. Planning the 5 week release program. Think it will work but time will tell. Quite a few neighbors that will prep their land also if I have any luck.
Would love to try a pheasant release also. I have heard there is a small wild Chinese ringneck pheasant population near Beaumont, TX but I don't know of any real sucessful programs other than Texas panhandle which is a totally different climate. Obviously, there is something about our climate or preditors or something that prohibits pheasant survival here. Does anybody know of any types of pheasant that might have a survival chance in East Texas? I read on one net site that the melanistic pheasant natural habitat is woods with nearby fields at a latitude close to ours. Does anybody know anything about that? I see other sites that say melanistic is not actually a breed of pheasant but a mutation.
I am at the point where I just don't know what I don't know about this. There seem to be some very knowledgeable people on this board. Hope to get some enlightenment.
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You'll have happier results, if you concentrate on Bobwhites.
With heavy cover, Pheasant would probably survive, unless you have a lot of Bobcats. They probably will NOT reproduce, there. They may be a good choice for pre-release, raising each season's birds, if it is legal, and you acquire the proper permits.
You may be getting information about Afghan Pheasant confused with the Melanistic name. Ringnecked Pheasant do not prefer wooded areas. They will utilize shelter belts and treed fence rows in heavy cold winds, and snow. Edges of sparse timber, sometimes.
I understand there is a pretty good population near Houston, and around the Gulf area. If so, I'd bet there is a lot of grain being raised where they are found.
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I agree, without good grain being present survival is chancey. You do have a good climate for them. You could do what I plan for this year, and thats putting a feeder at each release site to help them over the hump. This doesnt do much for predators so you need to release flight capable birds if you do it. The Bobwhites should do well.
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I plan to put in quite a few grain crops. Clearing out 5 acre patches in woods. Felling trees into the parimeter for heavy cover and leaving some felled trees in middle of patches. Think I will have good cover and feed. Probably will put out some feeders also.
I knew ringnecks nested in fields but curious if any pheasant nest in wooded cover. Seems like that would be my best chance of success. Beaumont is along the coast and does have a fair amount of agriculture and there is a pheasant population down there I hear. Sure would like to know more about that. The Texas coastal climate is like ours here in East Texas. Hot summers and very mild winters.
I am building a couple of pretty large flight pens. Not sure how much space is needed for pheasant to be flight conditioned though. Most of what I have read says to release quail at 5 weeks. Does not seem to be as much of a consensus on age to release pheasant but I was planning 5=6 weeks. Any thoughts on that?
Never heard of Afghan pheasant. Will do a google on them as soon as I finish this post. Since I made the last post I found some information on green pheasant. Does anybody know if they are wooded cover nesters?
I do have some bobcats on my place. I read a piece by a Texas A&M biologist who said habitat was the big problem and predators were a minor problem. This piece was for quail, not pheasant. He may be fond of bobcats, who knows? I have some cayotes, too. A friend who has been pretty successful in bobwhite release said cayotes were good to have around, they don't catch many quail but do catch feral cats who are tough on quail. Not sure how that applys to pheasant. What is no problem for a quail may be terrible for pheasant.
Anyway, no matter how this turns out I sure am having a good time working on it. As a sidebar, I bought a Deere 700H bulldozer for clearing. Getting pretty good on it so I now have another skill if the oil business goes to pot.
Really appreciate your input.
By the way, do pheasant need water? I have a couple of ponds and understand quail get adequate water from plants and insects save extreme drought periods. Have not heard anyone say on pheasant.
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Pheasants ForeEver or Quail Forever will sent out a Wildlife Biologist for FREE !!!.
They will help you draw up a plan for your property telling you what to plant, how and why.
I met the Biologist for our area last year at our December Chapter meeting, I was very impressed, he has a lot of groups and individuals doing just what your talking about.
You might want to join it's only $30 a year and they are giving a way a very nice free hat and the magazines are great.
Heck you might want to start a chapter in your area, you could get the ball rolling or the birds flying.
I live in North Western Massachusetts "The North Berkshires" Right on the Vermont Border, I am working on buying a piece of property 10 minutes from my home in Vermont. It's an old abandoned farm, when I get it I hope be using there services to help populate that property with game birds. The only wild game birds around here are Partridge and they are scarce.
Please keep us posted.
John
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Skipper you are in a very good climate for both birds, I also suggest contacting both Quail Forever and Pheasants Forever, invaluable help, good folks plus common interests, you'll enjoy working with them.
Quail fly early so they can be released early, pheasants are just nicely ready for a flight pen at 5-6 weeks of age, I wouldnt release them before 4 mos, but thats me, 5-6 mos gives you strong flying birds with much of their growing done, they'll still keep maturing over the winter. These are things to talk with the folks at PF about.
Yes Pheasants drink water, the more ponds the better. You will find that they prefer to nest along the edges of fields, not in them. You'll find the occasional hen in a nest out in a field but if the cover is there they will use it.
There are a number of Bird breeders here, I would suggest you start your first year with chicks or started birds. Look into the Manchurian Pheasant, they can handle heat and cold and are most likely to give you a Texas sized Pheasant. Breeders here.
Spend a bunch of time going back over the old threads, they are jewels. Just what you need. There are some books available through here also, Upland Game Birds is one.
Enjoy !
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I live in Houston I have been keeping up with the progress of wild pheasants in south east Texas for 35 years. There are small pockets of wild pheasants still around in Chamber and Jefferson counties. The rice farmers and the ranchers see them and hear them crow. However, if you went out to hunt them you might walk all day and see two pheasant. Factthat wild reproducing pheasant have survived for over 30 years in S. E. Texas simply means that can survive in S. E. Texas. Nesting cover and timely summer rains (Not Grain), is a key element. The rice is cut in August and September and is gone by December.
Wild colonies of pheasant are seen in other parts of S. E. Texas. Pheasant are now seen in part of Texas where they were notseen20years ago, for example Wild pheasant are now frequently seen 50 to 60 mile south of Lubbock in cotton country, nesting cover, CRP and timely summer rain helped. Also wild pheasants are seen all along the Red River near Childress on both sides of the river,
wild flushing pheasants are seen (not tame birds), again nesting cover and 2007 summer rain help these bird hatch.
Pheasant should survive well in Palestine, Texas. However, most pen-raised pheasants are tame and the predator will eat them up. So you need to start off with with the Two Wildest and Wary strains of the "True Pheasant" (Ringneck-Type) commercially available and they are: 1. Afghan Whitewing Pheasant (also known as The White-Wing Pheasant and Bianchi's Pheasant) Extremely Wild and Wary. The Whitewing pheasant was released all over New Mexico 40 years ago and also released near Lubbock years ago but quickly hybridized with the ringneck to produce a wilder pheasant in that area. To see photos of Whitewing pheasants in the wild state go to: "Bosque del Apache N. W. R. photo by Gayle P. Clement" Toubl Game Bird Farm has the wild Afghan Whitewing Pheasant. 2. The Manchurian Pheasant (Similar to the Chinese ringneck but much, much wilder). Macfarlane pheasant farm has th ManChurian Pheasant. We ordered both strains of these two pheasants for release in north Texas and they are wild and beautiful.
For more backgrown information about" The True Pheasant" Read "The Pheasants of The World by Jean Delacour" the Melanistic Mutant Pheasant is indeed a mutant not a sign of wildness but just the opposite a sign of domestication.
Texas hunters should not have to drive eight or twelve hours to Kansas to pheasant hunt we should enjoy good quail hunting and good pheasant hunting right here in Texas.
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Coldwind, What a helpful post. Thanks a lot. I just went to Amazon.com and they did not carry the Delacour book you mentioned, however they did have another Delacour book on care and raising pheasant. I ordered it along with a couple of other books on pheasant. By the way, what is CRP?
Another person on this board mentioned the Afghan pheasant and since I have read some on it. I also read up on the Mcfarlane Manchurian cross. I think I have decided on the latter though I love the look of the Afghan. Some propensity to roost in trees was mentioned with both.
I was surprised that you feel grain is not an essential element. I always thought that was the key with pheasant.
This is what is puzzleing to me. There must have been hundreds, maybe thousands of pheasant release efforts in East Texas and the south over the years. Why are they not experiencing more success? Maybe it is the type bird. Hopefully, the Manchurian cross will solve that. The whitewing Afghan has been around for years it appears, surely it has been tried.
I have some predators in my area. A few bobcats and a few raccoons but no more than other parts of the country that have good pheasant populations. I do see a few feral cats. That worries me. May try trapping.
My land is mostly woods on a big ridgeline. Very hilly. I bought a bulldozer and clearing out a number of 3 to 6 acre clearings. One large 20 acre clearing. Some of the trees I am pushing to the center for a burn but trying to leave a number of pushed down trees on the parimeter for cover.
I have several ponds, one near the 20 acre clearing. Hopefully that will do. Not much I can do about that.
The land surrounding me are woods, pasture, and abandoned fields. I think a fair number of the neighbors will make a effort to accomodate habitat if I have any success. I am thinking about buying another 700 acres next to me but it is all pasture in coastal and would take a few years to get it suitable.
I am not sure what is best in way of planting fields. This spring I will put giant ragweed in some areas and a gamebird seed mix in most areas. Probably will mix some milo with that. A sunflower patch. I have about 8 acres in winter wheat and oats now. That will not seed until this summer. Will take a year or so for grass and vines to start on woods parimeters. Would be better to wait until fall after next to start release but I don't want to wait that long. I am worried that a release before the habitat is perfect but planning on quail release this summer anyway. Can buy quail locally at 5 wks for release. No idea what the best release amount is but thinking 100 birds releasing 25 in four locations. Will do this two times, putting 200 quail on the place this year. Same thing next year and hopefully that will get a population going.
Bought incubator and brooder and intend on buying the Mcfarlane eggs for pheasant. So likely earliest I could release pheasant would be next September or October. I have read where only 5% of release pheasant will survive first year. Assume this factors in the normal 70% normal loss. Even these survivors don't live more than 3 years so I can see how getting a population going will tough. What is the earliest a pheasant can be released. I see the quail starts losing survival instincts rapidly at 5 weeks, would seem there is some point where pheasant starts to do the same.
Another thought. With pheasant, planning on releasing 8 hens with one cock ratio. Will save remaining cocks for hunt release with friends.
Sorry for being so windy on this but I started this journey knowing nothing about pheasant or quail and know very little more now but anxious to know everything. Was really glad to hear more about that sustaining population in Chamber and Jefferson counties. My climate is similar.
Stay in touch, if I can get this working would like you come up and shoot a few. Many years back I lived in Houston. Palestine in a lot slower paced. In fact, when Santa Anna left, he said "Don't do anything, I'll be back". Sure enough...
(Actually Santa Anna never got further north than Buffalo Buyou but it makes a cute story)
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One of our most active list members raises the Manchurian Pheasants and sells eggs, check back through the threads on Pheasants and you'll see Steve's posts.
Steve at Pheasant Hollow Farm.
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Skipper, I will address all of your concerns. Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is a government program that encourages farmers to convert erodible cropland into vegetative cover native grasses. CRP is excellent nesting cover for pheasant and quail. In March, April, May and June the mama pheasant needs and ocean of green (wheat or native grasses etc..) 12 to 16 inches high to make a nest and incubate the eggs for 23 to 24 days, undisturbed nesting cover lot of it, so the predators can't find them. CRP, in the southwest, a wet spring and summer is very beneficial to pheasants hatching, that why we had a good hatch of pheasants in the Texas panhandle, Oklahoma panhandle and S.W. Kansas.
If you goggle "Bosque del Apache N. W. R. photo by Gayle P. Clement" and carefully review all of the photos you will notice a number of ground as well as aerial predators.
In that same group of photos notice the wild pheasants (White-Wing or Bianchi's Pheasant type) are not surrounded by grain fields. The point I am making is that truly wild pheasants can live with predators and in areas without large quantities of grain.
Also notice the light or yellow iris (eyes) of the wild pheasant at Bosque del Apache (New Mexico) , birds of prey have similar iris color thus giving them excellent vision to capture prey. Conversely, the light or yellow iris on the wild White-Wing and the ringneck hybrids in that area may allow these pheasants to see aerial and ground predators better. These birds are not stupid, predators have a hard time catching them, they agile alert, wary and extremely wild.
I doubt if anybody in East Texas ever made a concerted effort to stock truly wild pheasants and prepare the land for them. Please note (34 years ago) that the wild pheasants established on the Texas coast south of Beaumont in the rice country came from wild-trapped pheasants from the Sacramento Valley of California and were crossed the White-Wing type.
Therefore pheasant wildness, habitat (undisturbed nesting cover) and some grain are all main elements to getting pheasant started.
The White-Wing pheasants have not been commercially available for along time.
Release pheasants in the wild on a 50% hens and 50%cocks. If you release 8 hens to one cock, predator might catch the cocks, don't risk areas of infertility.
I would only order Manchurian cross pheasants from Macfarlane pheasant farm.
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Skipper, I did not finish my last post. On the question of survival of released pheasants "only 5% will survive the first year" not always true, that is the average. However, with wilder pheasants you may have much better luck, you may even have a 70 or 80% survival. The 3 year story is also an average. Tell your neighbors about the pheasant release they can also protect them, and develop some predator control. I would release pheasants (after a big rain if possible to reduce dehydration) between 12 and 14 weeks old, also put out some feeders.
Remember the longer a pheasant live in the wild state the wiser he becomes' it's called "woodwise" and the first generation that hatches in Palestine will will be wilder than their parents.
You can also hear the cock pheasants crowing in the spring time, the crow count, will help you determine how many birds survived the winter and how far they have spread.
The wild instinct is genetic, therefore the wilded type pheasants will not lose their survival instincts.
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Strombergs says they carry a limited number of Whitewings.
Try here:
http://www.strombergschickens.com/stock/pheasants.php
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s87
On survival, I have mentioned on other threads, having a feeder around the release site for a few months is a help, how much of a help I'll tell you better this time next year.
Strombergs also carrys the Black Neck Bohemian, I have heard good things about them, big and very wild.
One other thing about the Quail and Pheasant Forver Folks is that they are going to be in your area and are already familiar with the problems that you will face.
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Jake, Have looked at the Bohemians. Pretty bird and big. Right now, sort of favoring the McFarlane cross. Have read some on the Afghan and may go with them. Three pops hanging in in Arizona. Understand Afghans lay later in year. Not sure if decrease in fertility if crossed with other subspecies. A different laying period would seem to indicate that. Have some time before deciding on this.
Have tried to contact Pheasant Forever. No luck, but probably my fault. I don't seem to think about it until the evening, too late to call, and can't seem to get email through.
Good information from Coolwind on the Houston area introduction and real glad to hear surviving pop may be better than the 5%.
I am a little confused on when to disc. I disc a few acres today but thinking ahead what do birds do for cover when feeding during that period after discing and the time weeds or grain is large enough to offer cover?
Also, I can't quite figure out how best to catch birds for release or shooting. I have built 6 pens, about 300 sf each and building 3 flypens 3200 sf each. I don't have a clue if these are right sizes or not. I have come across people suggesting so many different sizes, I think one may be good as the other. I just can't quite figure out how I am going to catch the darn things in the flypen.
I have never hatched, raised, or released a gamebird in my life but roughly here is the sequence I see. Buy the eggs, put in incubator, wait 24-26 days, put in brooder for 2 weeks, put in flypen (have heat in flypens), wait 8 weeks, maybe 12 to 14 weeks, maybe 6 months (getting info all over the place on that but probably a judgement call), Release.
Now, before I get a lot of flak I understand buy from reputable dealer, eggs may not hatch, cannibilism in brooder, disease, and dozens of other bad things that can happen at each stage and probably will. Assume a miracle I am lucky enough to get to the stage where I have birds ready for release, how do I catch them in the flypen? If the birds are wild and I get in a big flypen with a net they are going to be flying into the wire (yes, have netting on top) and breaking their necks it would seem. Actully, I have a guy that works for me that is going to be handling all this but he doesn't know anymore than me about all this and that is darn little. He just drew the black bean when I put him on this project.
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Hi Skipper
my flight pen I am building in a couple months is smaller then yours, but it tapers to one end, in every measurement, hopefully can herd them, mostly to the smaller end and swing the opening sides in, then collecting them at night . If you can arrange to visit a couple Pheasant farms it will help.
I'd figure on 3 weeks at least in the brooder although you are much warmer down there right now.
Keep trying with the Pheasant Forever folks, well worth it.
I dont believe you'll catch much flak here you seem to be doing things in a very considered manner. You'll find folks here very helpful, we're rooting for you. s98
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Jake,
You gave me the idea that I think solves my problem. I am building a 4800 sf metal bldg that will have three 3200 sf flypens behind it. If I build a very small pen (maybe 30 sf) at the far end with a door that can be opened (I will make a funnelling structure inside the flypen to this door) then a small opening that will go into boxes I will use for transporting the birds. I think that will work. I have been burying sheets of tin around the flypens for varmints but I think I can figure out how to still make that varmint proof in the area where I will have the transporting boxes.
The 4800 sf bldg with have entrances into the flypens and small doors for putting feed inside. Want birds to see people as little as possible. Will have about 1600 sf bunk area for friends that come over for shoots.
Any thoughts on time of year to disc feed plots or weed fields? BTW, I am going to put out quite a few feeders. In the reading I've done, most people don't seem to think feeders are a big problem but probably when birds are first out it will be helpful. Will get in touch with Pheasants Forever.
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Hi Skipper
I always disced in the fall just because that was the easiest time, next best being spring.
Your bldg design to allow least contact with people is a very good idea.
Back in the 70s I worked with the Peregrine Fund in rearing Falcons at Cornell, later I got to help with the 'hacking' of the Falcons back into the wild. This involved putting the not fledged chicks into high boxes, secured from Great Horned Owls and crows while feeding them, the chicks were as far as possible not related hoping to establish pairs. To me having feeders around is in the same vein, getting the stock established. Our results with the Raptors were far better in survival then most state restocking efforts of simply release of birds with no or little follow through with then. Having feed available as the stock gets established is pretty basic to me.
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Jake,
Any suggestions on places to purchase exterior feeders. The place that sells "surragators" has them for about $200 each. Since I was thinking about around 15 was hoping to find them cheaper than that. That may be the best deal, just don't know. Have run search for feeders but almost all seem to be for inside pen.
Was thinking was best to put them under some brush or some such. Don't want a "ambush" site.
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Hi Skipper
Cutlers Supply carrys them , also Nasco at: http://www.enasco.com/farmandranch/action/ProductDetail?sku=Z16179N
and the Cutler at: http://www.cutlersupply.com/store/index.html
I like a couple of them that Cutler carrrys, they also stock the G.Q.F. ones. All in all I find Cutler the most helpful on stufff I am looking for.
That seems to be the going price for them, I cant believe though that you couldnt get a discount for a quantity.I think 5-6 should rate a good discount. My local Amish owned feed store stocks one that Steve at Pheasant Hollow Farm told me about, a pic here somewhere I think on this section of one, it has a feeder, more for deer but it'd feed Quail and Pheasants too. That one is $210, I know my Amish friend would discount several for me. We have at least six mos before we need them, the main thing is to have them out when the birds are released. I am putting netting over several to keep the Owls out or give them some trouble. I also have Goshawks and dont know what the answer is unless its just to stock enough so some can survive. I am interested in survival of stocked birds not filling some hunters bag, that comes down the road from a healthy and thriving population.
Theres quite a range for capacity from 50-225 lbs of feed, I am going to get one of the small ones as it will be through some deep snow to get to where it will be, right now the site is almost clear but I had to plow through deep snow this week to get to it. I'll get some of the bigger ones for other sites, including two here. I think I am going to be investing in six at least this year.
For sure whatever you can do for each feeder, even worth it to stack old xmas trees around them, place under trees and put netting over them.
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Jake, I have not made a contact on the feeders. Probably could get a discount but a 20% discount would still make them pretty pricy. Actually came on a good idea on this forum. Put out 5 gallon plastic containers with the sprayer set twice a day. Seems the inserts are available. Think I will try that. Probably a good idea to put one of these in each flypen. That way the birds will recognize the can and associate the sound with food. Hopefully they will anyway. I would think just having the feeders out a few weeks after the release will get them over the hump. Will try to put them over brushpiles or other cover.
Another thing I am curious over. Do you think it is better to let out a few birds at a time or dump all of them out at a time. I was thinking a 500 bird quail release. Maybe 1000. They are territorial but not sure at what age that instinct kicks in. Also, it seems to me that putting them out a few at a time would attract predators. Could be the reverse of that though. Of course, won't be releasing anywhere near those numbers with pheasant.
I looked at the Cutlers site. Good supply of goods. Going to get some stuff from them. Will look at other site you recommened also.
Question on bands. On pheasant, do you band them when they come out of the brooder? That is 3 weeks. Size 7, right? Not going to band quail. Think simple color bands will work for pheasant. Just using them as sort of a system to see what works on age release. That looks like a pretty important thing. I see Steve with Pheasant Hallow puts them out at a year or more. Some say six months. It seems like the "surragator" folks are on to something with the 5 week thing with quail. A friend of mine here in East Texas has had good luck with 5 weeks on quali. It seems to me there is so much similarity between pheasant and quail that the loss of survival instincts at weaning age would apply to pheasant just like quail. Trying to figure out what the 5 week quail equivalent is for pheasant. I think earlier you mentioned 10-12 weeks as a good release time for pheasant. Did that time frame come as a equivalent weaning age for pheasant? That seems a little long. I mentioned 8 weeks but that was just a guess on my part.
BTW, I emailed Pheasants Forever on the age release question and the subspecies question. Will let you know response.
Was out on my place today playing on my bulldozer and pushed down a old tree that had two of the biggest coons I have ever seen and was full of bees.
Bees covered me and did not get stung. Spooky on that big dozer with bees all over me, paniced and tried to cut throttle to get out and opened it wide open instead. Almost comical. Living right here in Texas. If these birds are lucky as me, I'll have a bumper crop.
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Jake, I have not made a contact on the feeders. Probably could get a discount but a 20% discount would still make them pretty pricy. Actually came on a good idea on this forum. Put out 5 gallon plastic containers with the sprayer set twice a day. Seems the inserts are available. Think I will try that. Probably a good idea to put one of these in each flypen. That way the birds will recognize the can and associate the sound with food. Hopefully they will anyway. I would think just having the feeders out a few weeks after the release will get them over the hump. Will try to put them over brushpiles or other cover.
Another thing I am curious over. Do you think it is better to let out a few birds at a time or dump all of them out at a time. I was thinking a 500 bird quail release. Maybe 1000. They are territorial but not sure at what age that instinct kicks in. Also, it seems to me that putting them out a few at a time would attract predators. Could be the reverse of that though. Of course, won't be releasing anywhere near those numbers with pheasant.
I looked at the Cutlers site. Good supply of goods. Going to get some stuff from them. Will look at other site you recommened also.
Question on bands. On pheasant, do you band them when they come out of the brooder? That is 3 weeks. Size 7, right? Not going to band quail. Think simple color bands will work for pheasant. Just using them as sort of a system to see what works on age release. That looks like a pretty important thing. I see Steve with Pheasant Hallow puts them out at a year or more. Some say six months. It seems like the "surragator" folks are on to something with the 5 week thing with quail. A friend of mine here in East Texas has had good luck with 5 weeks on quali. It seems to me there is so much similarity between pheasant and quail that the loss of survival instincts at weaning age would apply to pheasant just like quail. Trying to figure out what the 5 week quail equivalent is for pheasant. I think earlier you mentioned 10-12 weeks as a good release time for pheasant. Did that time frame come as a equivalent weaning age for pheasant? That seems a little long. I mentioned 8 weeks but that was just a guess on my part.
BTW, I emailed Pheasants Forever on the age release question and the subspecies question. Will let you know response.
Was out on my place today playing on my bulldozer and pushed down a old tree that had two of the biggest coons I have ever seen and was full of bees.
Bees covered me and did not get stung. Spooky on that big dozer with bees all over me, paniced and tried to cut throttle to get out and opened it wide open instead. Almost comical. Living right here in Texas. If these birds are lucky as me, I'll have a bumper crop.
Skipper,
If I have more then one hatch, I will band the Chicks with the miniature cable ties in different colors at week 3. I will re band them around 7-9 weeks later with the alum bands size 7.
If you are going to band the birds at 3 weeks with size 7, you will be losing the bands, they will come off. Use the cable ties and just make sure that they are lose enough that they won't fall off, and replace them at a later date with the size 7.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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Skipper
in their first year there is a value to releasing them the oldest as can be, they'll be obviously more mature, and able to get away from predators, up north here they can take cold weather better, and can fly better.
Quail dominance kicks in the 2nd year, then males will fight. Ringnecks about the same. I've seen young ringnecks crowded like broilers like you wouldnt believe, but older and casualties would be high.
I agree on using the same feeders in the pens and outside, at the moment I only plan on using one small feeder, its in an area I have to wade through deep snow to fill. The feeder itself will be in a sheltered area. The other feeders I can pretty much drive right up to.
I am going to release my birds in small numbers, the Quail in covey size groups, and the Pheasants a couple dozen to a site. I will keep a small number over the winter in the flight cage and release them in the spring. On those I might add a colored band to help tracking them.Mass releases to me just mean mass dieoffs.
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Growing up in ireland i remember we had an old guy that raised a lot of pheasants he had about two hundred bantams and raised most of his pheasants under them for release the ones he raised in the brooders he kept for the following season for layers or sold the bantam raised chicks were the ones he releases on the farm the bantams were very wild and free ranged most of the time he always watched where the bantams were brooding and removed them to brooding boxes with the pheasant eggs he rarely missed one then when hatched he had small pens for the bantam and chicks when they were about two weeks old they were allowed out with the mother she trained the chicks really well to watch out for for predators and normally would raise up most of the chicks they were all caught up when about four weeks old and removed to a large release pen for several weeks when released he had really good luck with them and losses were not bad we always had several wild clutches every years on the farm from releases stock i was back there last February and saw several wild birds descendent's on these birdsthe last ones releases around there was at least 20 years ago Jim
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Hi Skipper
at the moment the best buy I have found on a bulk feeder is a Brower from Cutler, they are under $200 ea, 180 something, I will probably get two for the Pheasants. It holds right at 300Lbs. The others I have seen are around $200 for 225-250 lb models.
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You can probably make your own currie feeder for pretty cheap. Here is a link to how to make a quail feeder - just click on the link on the page to how to make a currie feeder. I don't see why you couldn't do this for pheasant as well.
http://teamquail.tamu.edu/videos.htm
You could probably even stick this in your flypen as a way to feed your birds in the flypen and that way they'd already be accustomed to eating from these guys when you released them, might lessen the learning curve for them.
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Tex ag,
Looked at the Currie feeder. Looks like the trick. Getting some 30 gal metal drums now.
From your handle I gather you are from Texas. If so, what part? I live in Tyler.
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Been raising quail here in houston in my backyard as a hobby for a couple years now. The neighbors haven't complained yet surprisingly.
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Skipper, You have started a great conversation I have learned a great deal. This is only friendly advice, you must make the final desicions. It will be great when you walk out in your fields in the fall of 2008 and 2009 with your dog and see wild pheasants flush and glide across the countryside, I want you to hear them crow in the spring and see chicks hatch in the wild in the summer. I have been studying and researching on the wilder strains of the "True Pheasant" Ringneck type for 30 years, so I know a little bide about all of the wilder subspecies of the True pheasant.
I raised the wilder species years ago.
There is a lot of confusion about the subspecies of the true pheasant, let me share some of what I have learned with you. All subspecies of the True Pheasant (Ringneck type) produce fertile offspring. In the native wild state all forms of the True Pheasant interbreed freely when they are geographically close together producing completely fertile hybrids.
They are all completely similar in behavior and habits, the cocks crow alike the mating habits are all the same. The hens look alike, average person could not tell the difference between a Ringneck hen in Kansas, a Manchurian hen or a whitewing hen (some a bite smaller).
The True Pheasants are made up of one Genus (Phasianus) and Species and subspecies. For example Specie ( Phasiananus Colchicus) Subspecie (Torquatus) pheasant is commomly know as the chinese ringnick some people call them "bluebacks" because of their bluish green rumps.
The Manchurian Ringneck is Specie (Phanasianus Colchicus) Subspecie (Pallasi).
Remember these are man made names the scientists or Ornithologists put the bird into subspecies based on distinct markings.
There are four subspecies of the White-Winged Pheasants 1. ( P. C. Principalis) Afghan Whitewing, 2. (P.C.Zarudnyi) Zarundy's Pheasant, 3. (P. C. Bianchii) Bianchi's Pheasant, 4. (P. C. Mongolicus) Kirghiz Pheasant (This pheasant is often called the Mongolian pheasant).
To see an good example of wild cross or hybrid of the subspecies White-Wing and Ringneck pheasant Google or Yahoo "Upland Birds photo gallery by James Prudente at pbase.com Ring-necked Pheasant" then ckick on all upland birds. Review all of the photos.
The white-wing pheasants are gifted with a strong survival gene pool, not only are they alert and wary they have excellent parenting skills both the hen and cock care for the chicks. That attribute along will increase survival. These birds are seen for hundreds of miles along the tough Rio Grande river, they have been there for 40 years and are expanding. If those birds can make a living in that tough country they can make a living in any part of Texas even other parts of the south.
I spend a little time watching game birds in the wild both quail and pheasant. With wild south Texas Bobwhite quail and when I was in Arizona watching the Gambel's Quail both parents care for and watch over the chicks.
When you cross whitewing pheasant to a ringneck (hen are identical) 95% cocks from that cross will inherit the full ring or a partial ring. However, the most important thing about the cross is that the ringneck pheasants will also inherit strong survival genes of the whitewing. The average hunter can't tell (Most of the pheasant have a full ring) but the pheasants in the Texas Panhandle have the whitewing gene, they are wild and wary.
The reason the whitewing lay just a little later than the the ringneck is two fold: 1.Pheasant resently removed from the wild state (never been in the pen) will lay late. Truly wild Quail will also late late waiting for the summer or tropical rains the start, 2. On the other hand some of the ringneck hens over the years in the pen have been selected as good layer.
So Skipper, I hope this information is helpful, keep us posted on your progress.
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Coldwind,
What a great post. Thanks for taking the time.
Just got through reading "Pheasants" by Peter Robertson along with Dennis Anderson (co-founder "Pheasants Forever"). A little discouraging, to tell the truth, as far as a chance of getting a sustaining population going.
Going ahead anyway. Have 500 quail in the incubator now. Have six 500 sf brood pens built and starting on three 3200 sf flypens. Have quite a bit of winter wheat, oats, and rye in the field now. Will start planting milo and gamebird mix about the middle of March. Got some Giant Ragweed seed also. Have dozens of 2 to 5 acre areas in the woods cleared now but will take a year or so to get good broomsege and brush cover on edges. I ask Jake earlier about feeders and came up with a "Currie" feeder mentioned on this board. Think it will do the trick.
Should get a hatch around Feb 28 or so. Will stick them in brooder for four weeks, growout pen for a week with "currie" feeder so they will know what that is and let most go. It will be six months or so before I have habitat in such shape that I feel I don't need feeders.
Hopefully in early March will order 200 or so pheasant eggs. Just want to see how that goes. Probably ringnecks. Will probably use them in shoots with friends. Whenever I figure out I sort of know what I am doing will get some Afghans. Have spotted several sites that sell Afghans. As I get comfortable with raising will get some of the McFarlane crosses. Already thinking about more flypens and don't have the three I'm building finished. Where I have the pens they will never see a person (at least rarely). Tying the flypens into a 4800 sf bldg that has slides for feed where they will not see a person.
Going to try different release ages but from what I have read leaning on 7 weeks for pheasant.
Trying to do some predator control. Have caught five feral cats so far. I have not seen a feral cat on my place in years. Thought the cayotes were taking care of them but they are there. From what I have read feral cats and snakes are worst predators. Don't think I have much of a snake problem but didn't think I had a cat problem either.
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Your setup sounds great! how about some pictures, I love stealing ideas :grin:
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Labmancan,
Stealing an idea from me would not even rank as petty theft, I'm afraid. Probably not at the stage now that pictures would be worthwhile. Besides, I'm so low tech I don't know if I could figure out how to do it.
As I get a little further along, I might get my secretary to show me how and I'll post some.
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Keep us posted on the progress and how it goes. Im pretty interested to see how it turns out for ya.
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Hi Skipper
When it comes to getting pheasants started, I knew that you would not get any support from "Pheasant Forever" . You see they don't believe in stocking pheasants. I don't mean to critizise an organization the does a lot of good for pheasants in the present North American pheasant range. Habitat developement and CRP preservation, all of the is good for pheasants in their present pheasant range. But they are not interested in expanding the pheasant range.
I understand their basic principle. However, if wilder strains of pen raised pheasants had not been stocked by the thousands, in the first place, in Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and in the Texas panhandle (only 35 to 40 years ago) we wouldn't have any wild pheasants in the fields at all. People from Hereford and Dimmitt, Texas (excellent pheasant country) Would still be driving to South Dakota to pheasant hunt.
Not believing in stocking pheasants by "Pheasant Forever" is like NASA not believing in Rocket technology.
The other problem I have with them not believing in stocking pheasants, is that people who join "Pheasant Forever" from places like Austin, Texas ; Lake Charles, Mobile , Atlanta or Jacksonvile, Florida are never given any hope of seeing wild pheasants in their areas. The pheasant range is not done yet. Just 130 years ago wild pheasants were not seen in any parts of North Amarica.
I am a member of "Pheasant Forever" I don't want to sound too critical "Pheasant Forever" does a lot of good for upland wildlife, I enjoy the magazine the article and pictures are nice. Good infomation on habitat also. I like the photos, but I also like to see real live wild pheasants.
Just a little encouragement.
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Coldwind,
Been a while since I posted, hope you are still monitoring this. Do you have any idea who sells whitewing eggs? A few months back I came across a hatchery that sold them but can't find them now.
By the way, will be releasing my first bobs in a couple of weeks. About 250 it looks like. Just got another 600 in the incubator.
Bought some land that adjoins my place. Gives me about 1200 acres, most of the new land in coastal bermuda pasture. Will take quite a while to get it turned and in grain. Borrowed a real big disc that can pull behind my dozer. Will dig very deep so will have to come back over with tractor disc. The coastal is really thick and would take five or six passes with a regular disc unless I initially break deep with the dozer disc. Funny, most people in my area go to a lot of trouble and expense to get coastal in and I am taking it out. Been planting ragweed also. Most people try to get rid of that. Now, am I right that pheasant like to next in milo fields? Going to a awful lot of trouble to miss that mark.
Another question. I think I understand cover requirements for quail. Needs to be about 75 yards apart optimum. Necessary to escape from predators. I read about cover being necessary for pheasant but have not seen a good explanation of how to space it. Most comments on pheasant cover I read are referring to escape areas from weather, not predators. This new land I bought has very big open fields, occasional copse of trees and quite a few draws. Much like you would see in Kansas. The quail habitat will be optimized with 1-5 acre food plots in wooded areas. This does not seem to be the case with pheasant.
Another question, do pheasant eat acorns? Hard to believe but quail actually do eat sandjack acorns (a small acorn but still seems large for a quail).
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Coldwind,
The coastal is really thick and would take five or six passes with a regular disc unless I initially break deep with the dozer disc. Funny, most people in my area go to a lot of trouble and expense to get coastal in and I am taking it out. Been planting ragweed also. Most people try to get rid of that.
Folks is weird, ain't they?
I have a semi-friend who wants Quail on his property. I went over everything with him, in detail. What was needed, what had to go. We tried to evaluate a pup on his land last winter. On 120 acres, there were only two spots to hide a Quail, one was a brier patch, 3 feet wide, 10-12 feet long, with dense, short fescue. Last week he called, telling me he had been out bush hogging. "Bush hogging what? Rocks?" "Bush hogged all them briers, so the grass would grow"!
Milo would not be best nesting area for Pheasant. It is better for feed, late, in areas that could have ice, or heavy snow. In most of Kansas, Wheat and Milo are planted in progression in the same field. Milo is planted after the Wheat is harvested in June and July. Milo is then harvested in Nov. Unharvested Milo makes decent cover for Pheasant in the fall and winter, but you will want weedy draws, and/or shelter belts for added cover. Multi-floral rose, ragweed, small, multi-head sunflowers, and Lespodeza would be good along the draws.
Milo is also great for Quail, and the brushy draws and shelter belts will be good for Quail and Whitetails.
The Pheasant will survive, if you don't have too many Bobcats, but if they would reproduce in your area, they would probably be there, now, considering the number of Texans that love to hunt.
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Wilderbirds,
There is a sustaining population of pheasant between Baytown and Houston. Release was done in 1972. Not much agriculture there anymore. Some rice farming but somehow flooded fields does not sound condusive. Nevertheless, there is a thin population of phesant there. There is a large population of introduced pheasant in the Texas panhandle and West Texas. Coldwind has a good post on that in this thread.
Of the 1200 acres, about 600 are pretty thick woods. A small amount of marshland. Four small ponds, two small lakes. In the wooded areas I have cleared out about 20 3 to 5 acre food plots in the woods that I have in oats, wheat, sunflowers, clover and gamebird mix (which has milo in it). Planted ragweed in a number of very small clearings and along roadsides.
Have draws all over the place. Really have no problem with shelter cover.
My concern is over the big open fields. There are three that are over 100 acres that are in coastal bermuda grass. This is very good for cattle, can carry a cow and calf per acre. Very high yield for livestock. I just don't intend to use it for cattle. This is the part that I said reminded me of Kansas but we rarely have snow here and when we do it barely covers the ground.
Of the literature I have read milo is mentioned as the best grain for pheasant. Gets about 3 feet high. Milo is a close cousin of corn. I can plant corn, of course, no more trouble or expense, just what I have read recommended milo. I am not going to harvest any of what I plant.
I do have some bobcats in my area. Over the years I have seen a couple. Have been thinning out raccoons and feral cats. Still, I have no more than any other part of the country in which pheasant do well. I'm sure after I start releasing predators will be attracted. Just no way to get around that.
I have a lot of broomsedge which is ideal for quail nesting. Just not sure what will be good for pheasant nesting.
I suspect my land is quite a bit different than your semi-friend. Most people think of Texas as wide open and arid. Where I live is much like Virginia or Missouri. Actually checked on native common pheasant habitat and they seem to do well in the same latitude with same annual rainfall as my area. Of course, they do well in much more northern latitudes also. Point is, in their native areas the common pheasant is not relegated to a narrow band of climate restrictions. You are right that there have been many thousands (I suspect) of pheasant releases in the American south with almost zero success. I think, like quail, habitat is the real issue with getting a pheasant population going. Still, I really don't know what the problem is but going to give it a try anyway.
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Skipper,
You are moving in the right direction. Yes pheasant do eat acorns, small acorns. There are small oak trees in the Texas panhandle (scrub oaks) pheasants definitely eat the acorns from them.
The Whitewing Pheasant eggs are sold at (yahoo):
1. "Pheasant Game Birds- Toubl Game Farms- Game Birds" click on Mature Birds (left) then scroll down, click on
Afghan Whitewing Pheasant( watch them fly )- Call them about Afghan Whitewing Pheasant eggs and chicks.
2. "Stromberg's Game Birds" Call them about Afghan Whitewing Pheasant eggs (only want afghan whitewing eggs
no other species) Don't order the other off colored pheasant like the Buff or Melanistic Mutant, not a sign of true
wildness.
The deep dozer disc should get rid of some of the ground and bull snakes in the area (they eat quail and pheasant eggs). An arial predators will hoover looking for prey, so if I am a pheasant feeding in a field I would need to dash for cover when I noticed a hawk diving. The closer the cover the better. For pheasants and quail cover 50 to 75 yards apart should work. With milo and feeders nearby the game birds should not have to venture out too far.
Remenber, the wilder stains of pheasants are genetically equipped to keep a low profile, ducking at the first sign of danger, crouching down when danger approaches.
Pete Squibb, international pheasant and game bird authority and WPA President (from Michigan) proved this point with the Sichuan pheasant, predation was much lower with the Sichuans. Just like the Whitewing subspecies of the True Pheasant the Sichuan is extremely wild , alert and agile. To see a wild photo of the Sichuan pheasant Google or Yohoo "Mike Moran Photography-cyclops" then scroll down to the 18th almost last photo.
Note the yellow iris of the Sichuan, like the whitewings better to escape night time arial and grown predators like cats. Some people think newer wilder strains of True Pheasant like Whitewing, Sichuan and Manchurian (Jilin) will replace the ringneck, not at all they will only add greater agility and predator alertness to the ringneck gene pool.
People are under estimating the viciousness and growing number of predators.
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Skipper,
You are on the right track, keep going. Food for thought; We have all heard about Owen Denny who was successful in gettig the first ringneck pheasants started in the U.S. in 1881. People frequently forget that those birds were captured in the rice farming areas around Shanghai, China.
Shanghai, is in the south part of that country on or near the 30 parallel. The 30 parallel is the same as Houston, Texas (warm and humid in the summer). Shanghai is also warm and humid in the summer time and not much snow in the winter.
Keep us posted on your progress.
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'Coldwind,
Hope you are still monitoring this. I am a lot further along with this project, been doing quite a bit of reading and somewhat more knowledgeable. I have pheasant brooder stock ready, a Afghan cross. They seem to be doing well. Have about 90 birds. Half hens. Should be enough to get started when egg season commences. Had some trouble with pheasant hatch rate but think I have that figured out now. A long way to go but have several hundred acres that has habitat about right now, will get more next year.
Really encouraged to find a full covey of quail today. They have been out several months. Have been seeing them in twos and threes but today first covey. I posted elsewhere on this. First year on quail. Did a lot of things wrong, learned a lot. Think I will make it work this year. Will see.
I have a concern on several potential problems. One is soil here in East Texas, mostly sandy loam and red clay, pretty much the same though the southeast. There are a number of studies out on calcium depravation in nonglaciated soil. I know there are populations in nonglaciated soil (little calcium in nonglaciated soil) Central Ariz, Central Georgia, Western Carolinas, south Louisiana, and Liberty county area in Texas are the ones I have found out about, could be others.
I'm going to get a little windy here but not sure how to get the idea across otherwise. There is a study out from Brigham Young showing calcium in diet under .2% drops egg production in half. Odd, high calcium does the same thing but I think there is another reason for that, not a concern. Anyway, all the populations in southeast are in light agriculture areas. I don't think the food is the problem, Pheasant do ok in their natural habitat in non agricuture areas. I think the cover ag gives is as important as the grain. There have been thousands of introductions in the American southeast, all but this handful unsuccessful and those very thin. Our climate, rainfall, and altitude are the same as strong native populations. China does not have raccoons and coyotes but Kansas does. There has to be something different in the soil that is causing pheasant introduction to fail or be so thin as to be barely sustaining. I think it is calcium. When soil is limed there is a reaction that produces calcium in sandy loam and clay soils. Southeast agriculture must be limed. That may explain how some of these populations have managed to hang in. It does not explain all. Arizona has two populations, very thin, that are not in agriculture areas and not glaciated but different soil than southeast. The Texas north and northwest has decent populations but the altitude and soil is so very different from American southeast I don't think that area is worth comparing.
Pheasant have something in common with chickens in season. They are fast layers and have a sturdy shell. Chickens don't lay right without calcium reinforcement. A lot more to that but too much writing already.
If I am right this is not a big problem to solve. Won't go into that here, again, too much writing. I could go ahead and try the fix I have in mind but would be several years before I would know for sure if it worked. Hell, I'm 63. Other people must have thought of this. Have had no luck with Pheasant Forever, earlier post on that. Talked to a biologist at Texas A&M. I think he was late for a tee time. But I bet there are a bunch out there that have looked at this or even tried angles on calcium. Sure would save me a lot of trouble if I could talk to some people that have some experience with this. Thought you might know some.
As much writing as this is, it is really the readers digest version. Certainly not the only problem I see with pheasant introduction in southeast, early protein is another, a odd type of worm another, and so on.All solvable I think.
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Skipper,
Great to hear from you and its great to know that you are still moving along on your project. The whitewing cross pheasants are alert and wary and should adapt well to the wild.
I would not sweat or be concerned about nonglaciated soil calcium or lime, those are old theories that may not apply to central or southeast Texas.
Early protein will not be a problem, because Texas is loaded with insects in the summer time.
The big limiting factor in early pheasant success will be predators, predators (predators X 10), trap as many coons and bobcats you can, and any other vermin you can trap. Areial predators should also be carefully monitored.
We will have to pray for rain in the summer time, timely rain in the summer is very important to young quail and young pheasants. Some years will be wet with good hatches and some years will be dry with poor hatches. Enough bird will carry over through the good wet years through the poor dry years, so you have to monitor or manage the hunting.
The whitewing cross cocks will hurt each other during mating season in pens. I would setup eight seperate pens, six hens to each cock. Keep a number of extra cocks available this spring just in case some are injured.
Keep us posted.
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Coldwind,
Good to hear from you.
I went with the whitewing cross because I was told that cross was used in the 1972 Liberty/Chambers county release. As I get more into this I am not sure that is central to the issue but trying to leave no stone unturned. The state of Arizona has two barely sustaining populations that were all pure Afghans. They will likely disappear in the next 10 years. The subspecies of common pheasant may have some role but I don't see it as the central issue.
I do think there is some importance to the soil. May be that glaciation (ie calcium concern) is not the key, but I do think there is some soil component that is the central problem. The old Sherlock Holmes reasoning comes to mind. "When you eliminate what it isn't, you are left with what it is". The common pheasant, in it's native range, does well at our altitude, with our rainfall, and in our temperature range (and warmer and colder ranges).
Varmits are a problem. I am doing what I can to lessen that. Clearing hawk trees in fields, trapping, etc. Be mindful that Kansas, Oregon, Dakotas, Michigan all have as many or more varmits as us in East Texas and they have pheasant. A problem, I agree, but not the central issue with pheasant introduction.
I am putting in grain. Have standing fields from last year. Planning a lot of Egyptian wheat this year. Still, there have been hundreds of releases in the blackland milo fields east and northeast of Dallas over the years. Not a pheasant to be found. Thousands of releases in American Southeast with the very limited success in four instances I can find. Many releases were in agriculture areas. Important, but not the main problem.
There are some things in rearing that I believe will help. Human contact, ample flight room, ample spacing, ample protein early, are a few things. Still, there have been dozens of releases in Southeast, in good habitat, with wild captured pheasant and none of them have succeeded so there is clearly something beside rearing.
Rainfall timing is important. Still, I imagine south central China's 32 inches of rainfall is no more or less erratic than our 32 inches. We just can't get pheasant to survive. Actually, I believe the erratic rainfall importance lays with bugs for late hatch chicks. T. Boone Pickens as done some work on that with containment areas on his ranch for quail with marked success. He is in a 18 inch a year area so obviously it would effect his birds more.
Rearing, feed, varmints, rainfall timing, and habitat are all important. A problem with any one of them can make pheasant introduction fail but I don't believe all of them done properly will produce a successful pheasant introduction in the American Southeast. I just don't believe any of them are the central issue. That pretty much just leaves some component in the soil in the American Southeast as the most likely suspect for consistent failure of thousands of pheasant releases over many years and I think calcium deficiency is the most likely suspect among soil components. You're right, that theory has been kicked around for a long time, that does not mean it is not true. If true, it is solvable.
By the way, since I posted to you I found a biologist that seems pretty knowledgeable. I am going to get her out to my place in January and kick this around. Also, the early protein I referred to in my previous post related to rearing, not in wild. Got mealy worms growing now. Going to supplement 27% gamebird starter.
As it turns out, I have six brooder pens ready now. That will give me about 200 eggs a week, all that I can handle. Will transfer once cock and six hens to each in late Feb. That will give them a month to settle down before laying season. Should be enough. Will keep extra cocks on standby.
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Skipper,
Sending some background information on other areas in the south and southwest with established wild pheasant populations.
1. Outer Banks of North Carolina has a small population of wild pheasants.
2. Mexicali, Mexico: Mexicali Valley has a healthy number of wild pheasants and they have been there for years. Google Mexicali Valley pheasants.
Getting wild pheasants started takes a great deal of repeated hard work and great effort along with wilder strains of the True Pheasant (Ringneck Type). Look at the article below.
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/120201/whe_legionsofspo.shtml
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Coldwind,
Thanks a lot for the information. Really interesting article on the Panhandle releases. I cannot imagine how I have missed the Mexicali thing. As many times as I have browsed pheasant that is the first time I have seen that. Big population. Sure takes the wind out of the glaciation theory. Still, I think there is some soil component that is a problem. Right now, I would give that 40% odds. Of course, I am still learning on all this and don't know what I don't know. I have read some studies that made decent arguments on mites and chiggers as the problem in the American Southeast. Haven't seen a chigger in years so don't put much stock in that. Read a avairy study aimed at a small worm often found in chickens. Writer made a casual reference that he also found them in captive pheasant. Could not find any harm caused by the worms other than they tended to give birds a little gas. I got to thinking a pheasant hen sitting on a nest and farting might be asking for trouble. Raccoon might pick up pheasant pharts. Lot's of angles to all this.
Question. A number of the websites on the Mexicali population mentioned the irrigation of the valley. The article on the panhandle release also mentioned irrigation. What do you think the importance of irrigation is? You are probably aware of Boone Pickens work on his ranch for quail. He put in a lot of water containment pits. Dry area and he felt light spring rains kept insect population low so reduced hatch survival. He has a lot of quail now and erratic rainfall has much less impact. Could that same thing be at play with pheasant?
I have been putting in some small stock tanks. Very small but I have a excavator and can go down 18 feet or so till I hit water. Also have a deep well, can probably get water to about 40 acres with sprinklers without killer expense.
You come up with any more areas that have pheasant, outside of normal range, let me know. I have three friends in my area that own over 12,000 acres altogether. Following me pretty close on this, just want to see me have some success before they jump in. I know some other large landowners that I am pretty sure would be interested, just have not brought it up to them. Could be we could get something going similar to panhandle group.
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I don't have anything to add to this thread, just wanted to thank skipper3905, coldwind, and anyone else who has contributed to this thread for their time and effort in sharing their experience and knowledge. I have enjoyed it alot and I'm sure it has helped many others as well. Thanks!
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Skipper,
Both pheasant and quail, in the stressful heat of mid summer, will greatly benefit from water containment pits and irrigation.
Irrigation is just a backup water system when the natural spring and summer rain fail to come on time. Hopefully, we will have a wet spring and summer like we did in 2007.
Keep us posted.
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Hi Skipper,
I do have interest in introduction of gamebirds. I have released them many times and the best time is taking adult bobwhite release as many as you can perhaps even from
different strains,1 month before they lay eggs. Before males start pecking and fightin
g. They will pair off and nest these chicks will survive best. I don,t have nearley the co
ver you do and it worked. Same with pheasant though quail seem better at nesting and coveys are great
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Hello Everyone,
I'm new to TQP but have been raising pheasants and releasing them for a few years and have been asking myself alot of the questions I've read here. I have a question.
Is there anyway I can better the quality of the birds I release through selective breeding?
Like bring in wild roosters or holding my breeder hens till they die of old age and adding only the wildest of hen offspring to the breeder flock?
The problem we have here is the hens don't make it through the nesting season, they will sit but are very week by the time chicks hatch and some even die prior. We have a small wild population coming but I see or hear of very few hens with clutches even though we get good survival through winter. We use a Manchurian x. they survive the winter best out here.
Any ideas?
SM
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The problem we have here is the hens don't make it through the nesting season,
Where is "here"?
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Central Alberta along the Battle River.
At one time there was a huge wild pheasant population.
I have 640Acres all in a CRP type mix Tall Wheat grass/Clover/Alphapha with scrub willows. This year we left the head lands standing.Next year I'll do some discing and leave 1/2 of it in a block.
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Springerman
I've sent a PM to a fellow that lives down your way , to get in touch with you.
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That's good. Someone with local experience is worth a dozen of us "ferriners".
It sounds to me like you need enhanced nesting habitat. In addition to shelter belts, and tall native bunch grasses, you may need to provide tall sorghum, so the hens will have food available, if the insect hatches are late. I believe I would find a way to supplement their food supply, with grains, and a calcium source.
Do you have fairly large populations of Sharptail Grouse, Prairie Chickens, or Ptarmigan, competing for food or nesting areas?
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Just a few Sharptail, and a healthy population of Huns. 5-10pair/sq mile.
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Thanks Reeves,
I have a old pheasant biologist coming to hunt here on the weekend he should help too.
Bigger block of grass should help.