That Quail Place Forum
Raising Gamebirds => Health Issues => Topic started by: wildergamebirds on October 03, 2007, 02:40:32 AM
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I have a friends in Az. that have a shooting preserve. They raise some 15,000 birds per year. They have a problem with Chukars they describe as flailing around almost as if they are swimming (legs and wings). Sounds almost like the actions you see once in a while with chicks that have a head injury, or nervous system damage. This affects all ages, or has.
Last year, he kept some on wire for 12 weeks, put them in flight pen, and within 24 hours, they were dying! Losses are usually over 50%. He is now keeping them on wire until time to shoot them. He almost had to cover the whole preserve with raised wire! I guess he put birds out at increasing ages with each successive batch, until he got to 12 weeks, gave up, and decided to put everything on wire. They had even hauled in sand.
I figured either a night time scorpion attack, or aliens. They concur.
Whatever it is does not affect Pheasant.
They took some to the University of Arizona, and they, in turn, sent birds, and samples to several other Universities. There are no earthworms, or much of anything else in the dust, there. They had the dirt analyzed, but didn't know for what.
The problem has not been solved, just avoided. Any good ideas?
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Wow ! Odd the Universities and Labs found nothing.....
Do they have any under ground power running under or near the pens ?
An old dump site ? Both could be weaping .
Sure sounds like a soil problem of some kind...I'd really like to know, if they ever find out what is causing this.
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Odd to say the least! I have never come across anything like this. I have had birds get caught in the top flight netting and get to the point of hanging themselves and then getting off and being totally disorentated and doing something as discribed with his Chukars.
I have had it when the birds hit the inside top of the barn roof and snap their neck and doing the same thing and then die.
It should prove interesting to find out what the actual cause is and the remedy will be.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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Well, Reeves, I was counting on you. Well, more like hoping, against hope. After reading your reply, I thought maybe Methane gas, or natural gas, PCBs. The first two might cause nervous system damage (which fits the symptoms, somewhat), and not leave residue after 24 hours, or so. CO2, or CO, maybe. The physical location, repetition with different age birds, and the quick onset screams poisonous gas, or black magic, to me. I'll ask, but I'm pretty sure they had been conditioned to temperature by the time they were placed in the pens. Otherwise, tossing birds from a 75 degree brooder onto 140 degree sand might cause some shock.
I think I mentioned they had even relocated the pens (same property) and hauled in sand, or gravel.
The ground is typical desert sandy dirt, so gas, or liquid could seep up, or down with little pressure.
Tomorrow, I'll be talking with a Research Biologist/Vet. who is checking on a feed formula including Histostat to prevent Blackhead. He will be thrilled to be presented with such a puzzle.
Maybe I'll buy a few birds back from Bob, and have him put them out. Maybe quick freeze any that die.
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Sounds like it could be Botulism. When they get to the flapping stage are their legs paralyzed? Do they die on their breasts with their legs out behind them and their wings closed? Cull any sick or even weak birds out of the pen and make sure anything dead is picked up immediately. With 50% loss that could be the problem. Have the vet check for it.
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Wilder, have you heard anymore about this? I am interested in what the outcome is.
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Rushcreek is most likely to be right, but nothing has been confirmed. One of the labs had a best guess of a Botulism strain that did not show up in their tests. I have recently learned that Histostat in feed can cause similar reaction, if water isn't constantly available adjacent to the feed. Perhaps there is some sort of arsenical gas seeping through the sand.