Quail Chicks Dying - Sanitation Problem?

[Andrew S.]

Hello everyone,
I just recently hatched some Blue Scaled, California Valley, and Gambel quail together.  The hatch didn't do very well, with almost all the Gambel hatching 2 days late.  When all the hatching was done, I had them all together in one brooder.  The temperature was good and everything.  Since then, there have been at least three - six dying every day.  I started with 32 chicks and now have 6 left.  They were all in the brooder last Saturday, so all this has happened before they are a week old.  I had a similar problem last year, but it wasn't this bad.
I am beginning to wonder if they are getting some sort of disease or bacteria from my incubator or brooder.  I clean them with a 3 in 1 disinfectant, but is this enough?  From some reading I have done, I think that this might not be getting the job done.  Anyway, does anyone have an idea of what might be killing these chicks?  Is it my cleaning method between hatches, or something else?

Thank you,
Andrew S.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

Hello everyone,
I just recently hatched some Blue Scaled, California Valley, and Gambel quail together.  The hatch didn't do very well, with almost all the Gambel hatching 2 days late.  When all the hatching was done, I had them all together in one brooder.  The temperature was good and everything.  Since then, there have been at least three - six dying every day.  I started with 32 chicks and now have 6 left.  They were all in the brooder last Saturday, so all this has happened before they are a week old.  I had a similar problem last year, but it wasn't this bad.
I am beginning to wonder if they are getting some sort of disease or bacteria from my incubator or brooder.  I clean them with a 3 in 1 disinfectant, but is this enough?  From some reading I have done, I think that this might not be getting the job done.  Anyway, does anyone have an idea of what might be killing these chicks?  Is it my cleaning method between hatches, or something else?

Thank you,
Andrew S.

Andrew,

I don't raise any of the above, but in your questions you never state the obvious besides,

the temperature was good and everything.

What was the initial temperature at the floor of the brooder, and at least 16 inches up?

What action was taken prior to placing them in the brooder? Did you dip their beaks in water? Is their food medicated? Does their water have electrolytes added? What form of brooder floor bedding do they have?

The questions ask by you without any information added is like we should know what you have done in advance.

If your hatch was normal to your expectations, I would guess it was in the way your brooder was set up, this includes the feed, water, heat and space provided.

Until you give us more information on your brooder set, besides the temperature was good and everything, you are basically on your own in the meantime.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[aKirA]

Yea more info. needed

Also the usual culprit is not grinding the feed fine enough for the chicks to eat. so make sure they can eat the feed.

I've been cleaning my incubators and brooders just with antibacteria dish detergent that's all. Just like doing the dishes. Havent had issues like mass deaths. When I hear of these on the forum...It's hard for me to imagine what could possibly cause it if all conditions are ok.

[Andrew S.]

I wasn't sure what sorts of information would be important, but I should have listed some anyhow.

My brooder is a wooden box that was used for shipping supplies to a contractor for a house.  The box is 54''X31".  It was only 12'' high, so I added screen to extend its height to 25''.  I use pine shavings for the floor, and heat the brooder to 100 degrees at floor level for the first week using an electric brooder heater which hangs about 15'' from the shavings.  Once the chicks were dry, and the brooder was heated and ready, I put the chicks in the brooder and dipped each of there beaks in the water (which is not medicated).  They are fed a 28% protein turkey starter crumbles. 

One thing that I did notice different was my pine shavings.  I usually get the tractor supply brand, but had to get a different brand because they were out.  The new brand seems to be finer and smaller pieces.  Would the quail eat enough of this to die?

I hope this is enough information.  Now I know what things to include next time I have a problem.  Thanks for the replies.
Andrew S.

[WHITNEYPLU]

They most likely ate the shavings and that is what did it. The shavings have no nutritional value and fill up on it instead of the feed. Next time use straw or a bigger flake of shavings, and grind up their feed some to make it smaller pieces. The brooder sounds fine you might want to crank it down to 95 degrees though. Also make sure and use a medicated turkey starter to start out with. On the water for the first couple of days I give mine a tsp. of sugar in their water (quart jars with lids for game birds, smaller lip on them) or you can use a vitamin and electrolyte mix from the feed store. Also with the birds hatching 2 days late they could have been weak birds due to the incubator temp being to low. Make sure and double check your temp. in the incubator. Maybe this can get you started.
Dusty

[faro]

Sorry to hear about your chicks. If your brooding in a box, with low walls and an open top, the draft will kill the chicks. Cover the box part way or use something solid to extend the walls. 12 inches is too shallow to keep out drafts, and the screen does nothing to hold in the heat. Once the chicks are a week old, they are less likely to chill and die, that is why you see less die as they get older.

[Andrew S.]

I thought about the birds being weak, but they sure seemed perky running all around as soon as I put them in the brooder.  I checked the temperature again and it was peaking at about 98.5 degrees.  Tonight when I got home there were only two left.
About a draft, they are in my basement and I keep the door closed all the time.  I don't know if there would still be a draft or not.  Just curious, how high are the draft guards that you can buy?

Andrew S.

[faro]

I can only speak from my own experience with raising quail for 8 years.

I have a 31 ft trailer that I raise my chicks in. It is closed except for an exhaust fan at one end, that runs 24 hrs a day, and 1 open window, at the other end, for fresh air. I have learned that drafts kill quail chicks. I don't grind their medicated feed, I don't add anything to the water. I put them in deep boxes (24-36 inches, half covered), with heat lamps, until they are 2-3 weeks old. They seem to do well after that in regular wire bottom boxes. I lost a lot of chicks when I used shallow boxes.

I raise chickens also....drafts don't kill chicken chicks like they do quail.

Just my two cents.

[wildergamebirds]

About a draft, they are in my basement and I keep the door closed all the time.  I don't know if there would still be a draft or not.  Just curious, how high are the draft guards that you can buy?
Andrew S.

  Is there an air conditioning vent in the room?  Is there an intake vent back to the air conditioner?

  Most commercial draft guards are 16" or 18"  someone on ebay offers 24" cardboard guards.  I use aluminum soffit metal from Home Depot, Lowe's, or local lumber yard (24").  It is more expensive, of course, but is impervious (relatively) to water, pecking, and poop.  Drill 1/2" holes 8" and 14"-16" above floor level, something like 12" apart,, just so there are several.  Bottom row of holes is most important.  8" is high enough above their heads to keep draft off them, if there is no wind on the metal, and too high for them to get there heads in the holes until they are old enough to remove guard, or birds.

  I also use this for rounded ends on longer brooders with plywood walls, and to round corners inside rectangular brooder boxes.  Foam insulation board, cut to various sizes works well for covering brooders, and makes adjusting amount of ventilation, and heat held in easier.

[Andrew S.]

There is no air conditioning or anything.

[WHITNEYPLU]

It was either the shavings or brooder pneumiona. Switch to straw and start out the chicks on terramaycin for the first 5 days at 1 tsp per gallon of water. If using the lip waterers then use a 1/2 tsp of it in thew water. I lost a whole hatch of quail before due to brooder pneumonia before and always start my chicks out on terramaycin since then and my survurial rate since then has been almost 100%.  Most times I will put in a tsp of sugar water in half the waterers and the medicine in the other to just be safe.

Dusty

[WHITNEYPLU]

I have seen my granddad hatch out a number of eggs wild/bought using a 100 watt light bulb with the eggs sitting on a moisten towel time after time. Then use the same lightbulb to brood them in a cardboard box( shoe box, some box a new tool came in, etc.) I think he just had the touch. We think we have to have the most complex equipment available today to make a hatch and brooder session work. The fact is with attention to the eggs and chicks and a willingness to make it work with a confidence in what you are doing anything will work. Your brooder will work, switch the bedding in it to straw and you will be okay and like the post I post before this one add something to the water. After that check them often thru the day to catch anything that might come up. Do not go crazy thinking you are doing everything wrong as most do when chicks start dying and then get discouraged. This is just a learning curve and you will get thru it being  a little smarter.
Good luck
Dusty

[CharlieHorse]

Here's what I would do, if I were you..........eliminate all the variables as much as possible, not neccesarily in this order:

I'd cover up the top of your brooding area, leaving one of the screened 31" ends open for the exchange of fresh air and the release of heat. This will eliminate any drafts in the biggest part of the brooding area. Anytime there is a heat source........there will be a draft. The colder the ambient temperature (cold basement?), the stronger the draft down the inside walls of brooding area, then to the floor.  Some basements are extremely cold in the summer, especially when the living area above is cooled with A/C.

Then, I'd grind up some feed in a blender.

Then, I'd put some electrolytes in the water.

Then, I'd take those wood shavings and throw them over the hill. I've never used them and never will, they sure look like a pain in the you know what for me and the birds.   I'd get some 1/2" hardware cloth and make a frame out of 2x4 or 2x6's on edge, put the hardware cloth on top. This could also be made to set down fairly tight inside the box you already have or build it the same size as the outer dimensions of your box and knock the bottom out of the box and fasten the box to it (what I'd do), being sure not to leave any cracks for drafts where the box meets the floor (caulking, silicone, wood, cardboard on outside, whatever it takes). Cover the wire for the first week with paper towels or rubber shelving liner, then remove the covering and your good for the remainder of the brooding period and none of those nasty wood shavings to deal with.

Then, I'd check the temp at the floor and adjust to 95 degrees.

Then, I'd take that bag of feed that you have and throw it over the hill too (it may be bad, I've had bags of feed that only a portion of it was molded), and get a fresh bag and don't store it in the basement!

..........now you will have covered all the bases as far as your feeding, watering, and brooding area is concerned.  

[Andrew S.]

I think the one sure thing I will do is raise the next ones I have on wire.  After quail are one week old, wont there feet slip through 1/2'' wire?  Their feet seem awful small. 
Thank you for the replies and good ideas.  Its good to be able to talk to people with a lot of experience!

Thanks,
Andrew S.

[CharlieHorse]

I think the one sure thing I will do is raise the next ones I have on wire.  After quail are one week old, wont there feet slip through 1/2'' wire?  Their feet seem awful small. 
Thank you for the replies and good ideas.  Its good to be able to talk to people with a lot of experience!

Thanks,
Andrew S.

No, they will not go through at all.  1/4" wire is too small for their droppings when they get a little bigger and tends to build up. Their droppings continue to get bigger as they grow too. By 4-6 weeks old, my Bobs dropping would not pass through 1/4" wire.