Having blowouts & bloody eggs

[Purpletaco]

Last year was my first time breeding pheasants.  I had no problems whatsoever.  This spring I have two breeding pens.  I'm using the same feed as last year.  One pen is all ringnecks and I have very little problems with blow outs just some bloody eggs. 

The other pen is ringnecks,buffs,melanistic and various crosses between the 3.  Half of my eggs everyday are bloody and I keep loosing hens to blowouts.  What am I doing wrong.  Is it the mixing of the breeds?  I find it hard to believe its the feed as its the same feed I used last year and its the same feed I use in the all ringneck pen with very little problems.   Also is there a way to use the eggs that have blood on them or is best just to throw them away. 

Thanks,
Curt

[Reeves]

Sounds like there is some sort of disease running through the pens ?

[Purpletaco]

I should've elaborated on the dead pheasants a little more.   I had a very bad cannibalism problem in this pen this year.  Once it started I couldn't curtail it.  Anything that bled was eaten alive unless I caught it soon enough to get it out of the pen.  Its the same with the hens with the blowouts.  They bleed in the back and bam its like its game on for the rest of them.  I have two seperate small pens that if I catch them I put them in to seperate them from the rest.  In a matter of a day or two its like nothing was ever wrong with them.   So the death part is caused by the cannibalism.   Its the blowouts that I need to stop.  I was told it was from to much protein but that doesn't make sense as the other pen gets the same feed and virtually no problems at all.

Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Curt

[CoopVilla]

Prolapse (egg blow out) - its about game fowl but basically the same symptoms 

Prolapse is caused when the bird is too fat and/or egg is too large and the birds reproductive tract is expelled with the egg. Prolapse usually cause permanent damage to the hen and is fatal in many cases. Feeding oyster shell "free choice" (always available) is also a good idea to help insure strong egg shells.

source - http://www.gamefowlfacts.org/wiki/Prolapse

[Purpletaco]

That sounds about right.  I just added oyster shells 2 days ago.  Hopefully it helps.   

Can you wash the blood off the eggs and still incubate them.   I was told no and I haven't been using them.  I just wondered if their was a way to wash them and still use them.


Thanks again,
curt

[Reeves]

Toss dirty eggs. I posted (in the stickies) in the top of the Incubation section , some about eggs to choose for this.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

Purpletaco,

All good recommendations.

Lets go to the Manuel:

Prolapse of the Oviduct

When an egg is laid, the vagina everts through the cloaca to deliver the egg. If there has been injury to the vagina, such as from a large egg, or if the hen is fat, the vagina may not retract immediately. This may result in cannibalism ( Cannibalism). When the protruding organ is pecked by others in the flock, the complete oviduct and parts of the adjacent intestinal tract may be pulled from the abdominal cavity (“peckout”). Alternatively, the vagina swells, cannot retract, and remains prolapsed (“blowout”). The hen dies from shock. A high incidence has been associated with excessive/premature photostimulation, early laying (inadequate body size), large eggs, double-yolked eggs, and obesity. Cannibalism may be prevented by beak trimming, maintaining appropriate stocking density, and avoiding nutritional deficiencies.

additional informatio can be found here:http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/205811.htm&word=prolapse


If you find any hen that has passed an over sized egg, being equal to a chicken egg, take the hen out and slaughter her for your own consumption. The chances of survival even if she is separated, is slim and is more then likely to die within 24hrs.

If you have any hens that have the vent area protruding but has not blown out (prolapse) you can try to push the area back in with your finger, using Vaseline and your smallest finger, then remove her from the breeding area and keep her in the dark to stop her from laying any eggs.

The eggs that have any blood deposits or blood smears are still either eatable or hatchable, just wash them off with warm water.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[Purpletaco]

Steve,
Thanks for the info.  It looks like you hit it right on the head.  The hens are picked out in the back.  The eggs do seem to be a bit large.  I think this is the problem.  The hens that seem to have the most problem are the mutant/ringneck crosses from last year.  Half of the roosters in the pen are mutant/ringneck crosses also.  I have a little problem with the straight ringneck hens in this pen also.  But the pure mutant and buff hens I have not had one problem with yet.  The cross hens seem to be a heavier bird this may have something to do with it.  I'll keep any eye out and start buthering the ones with problems.   

When you wash the blood spots off in warm water.  Do you do it immediately?  Can you just wash them under warm running water in the sink??

Thanks for all you guys help,
Curt

[wildergamebirds]

Do you do it immediately?  Can you just wash them under warm running water in the sink??

Thanks for all you guys help,
Curt

  If you do it, yes, the sooner the better, and get the water about as hot as you can stand it (I've heard 105F-120F  105 is the figure I've heard most often).  105 is just the point where water is pretty uncomfortable, not scalding.  Hot water will make you wash quickly.  I have no experience with this, but have washed eggs in this manner when I had a few that were dirty.  If the hen is healthy, I don't know that a smear of blood would do any damage.  Just don't sell them to anyone.  If they are large because of double yolks, they won't hatch.

[CoopVilla]

You'll find that there is more than one method when it comes to washing eggs. If eggs are really dirty, One ought to discard them.

The University of California says the water temp should be between 110 f to 120 f - (43.3 c to 48.9 c) for no more than 3 minutes.  an egg washing machine is used with a disinfectant or sanitizing solution mixed with water and changed every 200 eggs you can read more about that here if it will help http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8120.pdf

Others say wash with no more than 5 degrees above the egg temp while  another says at least 10 or more with a damp cloth or paper towel. Egg washing been going on for allot a years, yet there are some that won't except anything but a naturally clean egg. below are some ideas on washing

Source: http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modpo/e6920004.html

Clean dirty eggs before setting to remove a source of bacterial infection.
Eggs may be cleaned in commercially available sanitizer detergent products or in a solution made by adding 1 ounce of 20 percent "quaternary ammonium compound" to 4 gallons of water.

Dry cleaning (use a sandpaper brush) is permissible if the cleaned eggs are dipped in a sanitizing solution after brushing. Household bleaches are fine sanitizers if manufacturer's directions for sanitizing are followed. Remember to dip eggs into sanitizers - do not soak them!

Remove all undersized, cracked, weak-shelled, over sized and odd-shaped eggs.

Fumigate clean eggs soon after collection and again after traying, if desired, but never between 24 and 96 hours of incubation. Hydrogen peroxide (H.2O2) is an effective fumigant.

----

source: http://4hembryology.psu.edu/successful.html

Do not wash the eggs unless necessary. The eggs have a natural
protective coating that is removed by washing. Only wash eggs
that are visibly dirty. Then wipe the egg clean with a wet cloth warmer
(at least 10 degrees warmer) than the temperature on the eggs.
Do not set eggs that are excessively dirty. 

[Reeves]

Coop posted what I was talking about (I was too lazy)

The main reason you do not want to set dirty eggs , is that in an incubator, with the heat and humidity, it is the perfect environment for breeding bacteria. You may end up with a strong varity throughout your incubator and hatcher and it can be difficult to kill off.

If you are dealing with a rare species, then I would advise cleaning like Coop has posted. Otherwise, toss dirty ones. Keep for setting the "normal" looking , and normally clean eggs.

[Purpletaco]

Thanks to all for the suggestions.   

The bloody eggs and dead hens has virtually ceased. 

Thanks again,

Curt