Space Requirements for Brooding/Breeding/Flight Conditioning Bobwhite Quail

[Dave]

Greetings All,

I've been out on the forum reading any number of posts regarding space requirements as well as various websites on this topic.  There doesn't seem to be a real consensus.

For brooding up to 6 weeks (I live in SE WI so I'd be looking at keeping them inside longer then you guys in the south) I've found space requirements stated at .1 sq ft per bird up to .25 sq ft per bird for birds 1-4 weeks old.  That puts 10 or 4 birds per sq ft depending on which requirement you go with.

For birds 2-6 weeks I've found space requirements from .25 sq ft to 1 sq ft per bird.

Breeding space is also across the board.  The breeding cage that GQF sells consists of a "compact 10” x 24” and is adequate for up to 2 pair of Bobwhite or one cock and three hens".  This equates to having 4 birds in just under 2 sq ft.  Another requirement states 2 sq ft per bird.

As for flight pen space - again I've seen everything from 1 sq ft up to 5 sq ft per bird.

Would any one like to chime in with what has worked for them? 

I have a total of 3600 ft of enclosed space - not all is usable - that I'm contemplating turning into both brooder/breeding space.  I have 75 acres that I can use as flight pen space.  I'm trying to determine the viability of turning a venture that just started three weeks ago that consisted of raising a few hundred birds for my own use to possibly a small business venture.

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions.

Regards,

Dave

[wildergamebirds]

 

  GQF battery brooders actually provide a little less space about .06 sq. ft., or 9 sq. in. per bird.  Everyone who I know that has them has been successful.  They say for up to 4 weeks.  I would guess you would want to cut numbers by 25% or so for Georgia Giants, Butlers, or the like.  I just did a little math, and if I got that right, I provide at least 10 sq. in. Per bird the first 2 weeks, then about three times that, which is their home for 2-4 more weeks, depending on conditions, availability of growout space, and whether I’ve sold part of them.  This is for Georgia Giants, but I put the same numbers of the smaller varieties in each space.  I use a closed in area, divided with chicken wire with “rings” inside that.  This way they are all “imprinted” to each other, and are not separate groups.  So when placed in larger pens, I am not really “mixing batches”.  At least it has worked that way, so far.
  The laying cages are quite adequate, but the birds you take out when finished are not flight birds, by any means.  They are very convenient.  You’ll have to find your own compromise.  If you use colony breeding, and provide 1-2 sq. ft. per bird, you will have quite a little job collecting a thousand eggs per day.

  Two sq. ft. per bird is a pretty standard recommendation for flight pens.  I’ve very seldom had adults that tight, and only for a short time.  I know growers who use about 1 sq. ft. Per bird in raised hardware cloth.  I’ve used birds from two of these growers, and the birds flew well.  One group in particular was very wild.  One thing about pen space to consider is that it is not really directly proportional.  A 1000 sq. ft. pen with 500 birds will give you better birds than a 10 sq. ft. pen with 5 birds.  Two to three feet per bird is probably good, with a minimum of around 250 sq. ft., regardless of number of birds.  Anything with less than 30 feet, or so in one direction will probably not give good results.  More is better if you don’t end up scrimping on quality, or feeders/waterers.

[Reeves]

 

[wildergamebirds]

  Moi?

[Bird Brained]

One thing about pen space to consider is that it is not really directly proportional.  A 1000 sq. ft. pen with 500 birds will give you better birds than a 10 sq. ft. pen with 5 birds...Anything with less than 30 feet, or so in one direction will probably not give good results.

I'll have to disagree with this...I have proven this one wrong.  The BIG flight pen myth that a businessman long ago came up with to make his product more appealing over another mans product is not necessarily completely correct.  If people hear the myths enough times, they begin to believe them.

The main reason for bigger pens is to hold more birds.  How many commercial gamebird farms have one acre under netting with only 50 birds in it?...it just isn't so.  The main reason the pens are so big is to hold more birds.  5,000 birds can't fit very well in a 10' x 10' pen (unless you stack them in layers)

Don't get me wrong, I too have a couple Bigger flight pens that are longer than they are wider, but I needed to build a bigger pen to hold large quantity of birds and why not build it narrow and long versus square, but the birds, in my experiences, would have turned out just as "flight conditioned" either way I decided to build the pen shape.

Dave, The main thing you need to know is gather what information you can, filter through it, try some of the better ideas and learn from the mistakes.  You won't get it right the first, second or third time so be patient.  Don't expect to be handed all the tricks of the trade either...no one that learned the hard way of trial and error and took decades to figure something out is ever going to be willing to just give it away for the asking.  That would put any of corporate america out of business and take away their edge on the competition.

If you want "expert" information, you'll most likely need to pay a consulting fee to someone that is willing to sell their hard earned successes (part of the cost of doing business).

I'm not putting the question(s) down, I think research is great and necessary, just be willing to work hard, stick through the rough and hard times when you get in the RED, and you will in this business, and learn from it.

The first couple of questions I would have for you are:

Do you have a written business plan (draft o.k. given it's only been 3 weeks in the making)?

How much money do you have to invest in your business up front to get it going?

What type of product are you going to sell (flight birds only, or eggs, day olds, etc too)?

(Depending upon your product(s), the <3600 sq/ft may limit you from the beginning)

Can you afford the required up-front investment that won't pay out for 6-9 months or even a couple years to show profit?  

Starting from scratch with no experience in large scale operation will be very tough, can you afford to hire someone to work for you with experience that can get you going and for you to learn from along the way?

[wildergamebirds]

One thing about pen space to consider is that it is not really directly proportional.  A 1000 sq. ft. pen with 500 birds will give you better birds than a 10 sq. ft. pen with 5 birds...Anything with less than 30 feet, or so in one direction will probably not give good results.

I'll have to disagree with this...I have proven this one wrong.  The BIG flight pen myth that a businessman long ago came up with to make his product more appealing over another mans product is not necessarily completely correct.  If people hear the myths enough times, they begin to believe them.

  So five Bobwhites raised in a pen 3.25 feet by 3.25 feet, will be just as wild, and fly just as far when flushed, and be in as healthy condition, as any five picked at random from 500 raised in a pen 20 feet by 50 feet?

[CharlieHorse]

My .02 cents....well it's .50 cents nowadays. 

Granted, I don't have the large flight pens, nor the experience as some of you. But I will have to say that the only time that my BW's ever fly, is when I'm in there stirring them up. Some of them do fly up (about 8') to a perch at night, and that's about it.  So if they never fly unless disturbed by something, then what good is the so-called "flight pen"?  They can't be "flight conditioned" unless they fly on a regular basis can they?  I wouldn't think that flying once a week or longer would qualify as flight conditioned birds.  Although, when I release my birds, they fly very good and for a considerable distance right out of the shoot, with great control I might add. As if they had been in the wild since day one.

I've often wondered about the "flight conditioned" birds claim. A big cage doesn't automatically make them fly.    Doe sit?

I had heard from someone once of putting a rabbit in the pen every now and then to keep them on their toes and make them fly. Of course, the pen can be too small, where they can't fly at all, even when disturbed.

[Bird Brained]

Got your offline response Dave, I'll take time later on today and type up a reply and get it back to you.

Regarding the posted questions about flight conditioning...there isn't a need to stir the birds up, they will do that on their own and flutter/fly around enough to keep themselves exercised.  Once a quail gets past the initial short burst of taking off, it's pretty much a coasted soar anyway until they apply the brakes to land.  If they have places to fly up to and sit then fly back down (johnny house concept) that helps too.

If you've ever raised pigeons...have you noticed that a pigeon will hover in one spot in a smaller pen to keep their wings exercised (the pen has to be big enough they can stretch their wings fully out to hover obviously) .  Now a quail won't necessarily hover like a pigeon, but all the bird really needs is ample space to flutter/fly to stay exercised, it doesn't need to be in full flight numerous time a day.

There are a lot of other factors that contribute to a good flight bird other than exercise..like a good diet, bloodline, imprinting, conditions of its feathering, is it sitting in a pool of mud on a ground pen with it's feathers and toes are caked in mud balls or is it on wire flooring (some say this causes the tail feathers to break, I've not experienced that as a problem and prefer the extra benefits of the wire flooring, most people won't pay the added expense for the wire and flooring framework so you won't see them that often).

Not diving in too deep here, that I'll have to leave for the consulting charges. 

[CharlieHorse]

Thanks Bird Brained.