Quail Harness...

[kmk75]

I posted this in the "raising game bird general discussion board" but was told this may be the place to post it.

I am looking to raise about 6-12 quail for training my dog to track and flush.  Before I get in over my head I am doing as much research as I can to find out if this is going to work for me.  I am hoping to use state land to train my dog using a portable recall cage to recall birds after being planted, tracked and flushed out by my dog.

The question I have is in reference to recalling.  I see that I can use a portable recalling cage for this purpose.  If my birds live together all year round in their coop is there any reason to keep them in the recall cage for a specific amount of time before taking them out in the field for release?  And how long will the birds usually take to be recalled? 

I also see that maybe instead of using a recall pen I can use a quail harness to keep the bird from flying away.  Does anyone have any experience using the quaill harness for dog training?  Because it does seem like the easier and more guaranteed way of keeping my birds!

Thanks for any input....

[slider]

If you do not want to shoot or flush them then just place them in a small wire cage like 6x6 drag it around then hide it.Or you can drag a wing and just hide the bird in the cage.

[wildergamebirds]

  If it's the harness I'm thinking of, the bird can't fly while in it.

  If you mean a harness to tether the bird, it might cause you dog to catch birds, creating real problems.  I suppose not as big a problem with flushing breeds, but chasing after flush could be dangerous to the dog.  I would think a remote launcher would be much more useful.  Not cheap, of course, but considering what you'll send on the dog over a period of 10-15 years, it's not bad.

  Also, I would suggest Chukars, or Pigeons, especially at first. They fly much better.

[MtBullion Gamebirds]

Chukar would be my choice.  They will hold for a long time also.

[kmk75]

My goal is to teach her not only to track but also flush without loosing birds.  I will only have space for a pen that will hold no more than 12 quail so I really can't afford to lose any.

There is a Velcro harness which prevents the bird from flying and walking.  Good for tracking and retrieving I am guessing? 

And the other harness is one that allows the bird to run and fly but is attached to a line so it  can't fly away.  Good for tracking and flushing I would suppose?

Besides not being able to shoot the birds after my dog flushes them what difference would in make in training the dog if I used these restraints instead of the plant and recall method?

I am also not too worried about my dog chasing or killing the bird because she is very obedient and will listen to her commands.  I am also going to attempt to allow her to retrieve the live birds when the bird is in the restraint harness.  I heard of trainers doing this but I don't know if she has a hard mouth or not.  Guess I will find out.  There is also a quail restraint harness with spikes in it for hard mouthed dogs.

Thanks again....

[greyghost]

kmk75, I think we, the audience, need a bit more info. What breed of dog? What age? Do you know the parents? Are the parents hunters? Soft mouths? Give us a bit more to work with. There are alot of avid hunters and trainers here. You would do yourself a great service by doing this. All we know so far is that you have a @$$$@.

[kmk75]

Sorry we are beginners at this hunting thing!  We both just started this year.  I have a spayed 2 year old female chocolate lab.  Her parents were not hunters just farm dogs.  I have been working with her since she was 8 weeks old but not for hunting.  She knows all basic obedience plus some.  Hand signs and verbal.  She also respons to 2 whistle commands.  1 for stop and 2 for come.  She also response well to her E collar.  Other than that we are still working on more to get her to hunt things other than deer droppings, animal carcass, and all kinds of things.  She does find a bunch of pheasant with their heads taken off or pheasant feathers but I just can't get her around enough live birds.  Most important, hunting dog or not, she has a bunch of fun running around thinking she is hunting!  And I don't expect her to be the best, just good enough to flush some birds.

I know I am starting her a bit late in life to hunt but she does show excitement the few times she did get around birds.  And she gets real birdy when she hears that shotgun blast!  She comes running over looking for direction.  If I give her a command to "go find it"  she also gets birdy.  I also work with pheasant and quail scent and hide them in the woods and she has no problem finding them.  But she gets bored of that easily. 

I also do not waterfowl hunt with her....yet!  We may save that for next season! 

That's about it....thanks for your interest and help.

[Vrex]

I use 4" piece of cardboard tied to 1 leg for training my dogs not to break on the flush or chase a bird that was shot at and missed.  It takes a little effort but you can catch the bird if that is your intention, at the same time you can teach her not to chase.  If you started out with a check cord and graduated up to the e-collar, I guess that would work but I think it would send mixed signals to a retriever.  I do not think a cage or a harness would work, if I send my dogs in for a trail or retrieve, cactus will not stop them from bringing me that bird.  This is just my 2 cents worth.

Mike

[Bird Brained]

There appear to be two posts on this...just the wording of the question is different and the direction of what's trying to be accomplished has advanced.

Forget about using quail, chukar or pheasant...It's obvious you need pigeons for what you are wanting to train the dog to do and you wanting to reuse birds over and over.  You first need to train the pigeons to return to their coop, then you can use them for dog work.

Pigeons will work for scent work, the dog can flush them and you can let them fly back home for reuse another time.

I would suggest though that you either use a manual release strap on the bird or better yet a remote launcher while training or the dog will have advantage to catch every bird before it gets airborne.

This way you can catch the pigeons from local barns and avoid dealing with those overpriced bird raisers (10cents more for a bird) all together 

[Vrex]

Makes good sense, however when I started I could not afford a launcher now I believe you can not afford to have one.  As for pigeons they did not work for me, my dog just turned 2, we should have Master Hunter completed next month and I can not break him for diving in and killing the pigeons.  Even with the check cord, e-collar and launcher so that battle I chose not to have, I stick with using quail,chucker and pheasant.

[kmk75]

Sorry about the two posts....They were probably both posted by me!  Just a newbie at all this forum stuff.  Thanks for the info.

[Bird Brained]

...I can not break him for diving in and killing the pigeons.  Even with the check cord, e-collar and launcher so that battle I chose not to have, I stick with using quail,chucker and pheasant.

You've got to hold on to the checkcord and push the launcher button before the dog gets to the bird for it to work right ya know

Seriously, if you had the checkcord on the dog and was holding onto the cord as you led the dog into the scent cone and knew where you planted the bird how in the world did the dog ever get to the bird to even have a chance to catch it?  Same with the launcher...once you had the dog whoa'd with the checkcord and staunch on point, then popped the launcher (only if the dog moved after pointing), how did the dog get the bird?  Somebody must have let go of the checkcord and let the bird go and the bird didn't fly.

I'm surprised they'd give master hunter title to a dog that won't hold point on a bird  
Then again, I run NSTRA not AKC so I'm sure the rules differ.

[Vrex]

No BB he works fine on the check cord with pigeons, it is only if I was training with out it I had a problem.  As far as getting his Master in AKC the rules do not differ.  I did not run him through Junior, he had Valley Fever at a young age so after he healed we went strait to Senior.  5 strait passes, 4 call backs for an Honor, other dogs did not have a chance to find and point.  Now 2 strait Masters, he hold fine on quail, chucker or pheasant.  I think my problem stemmed when he was 8 weeks old, I would let him play with dead ones.  He placed in the 2 AKC field trials I entered him in last year, so I think he is ready this year for Nastra.

Mike