Problem with English pointer

[tanyav1]

Hi,

I'm posting this on several different boards hoping to find a good answer.

I have a 6 yo Female English Pointer. Up until a couple years ago I was working with her on training at least 2 days per week. She has always been a high strung dog and runs really large.. I finally had her working close enough for my liking. Life changes have changed the ability to take her to the club and train so much or take her out hunting. Over the past year she began hiding in corners and behind chairs, and "digging" the floor/carpet in the house. She would do this all throughout the day. I talked to the vet and we put her on clomicalm (morning) and amitriptylline (night) with acepromazine as needed for acute spells. I wasn't seeing any improvement so talked to the vet again, and we are now trying prozac in place of the clomicalm. She has gotten better throughout the day, but now she wakes up every morning between 4 and 5 and appears to be having a panic attack. Hot, panting, licking lips, rigid, tail between legs, and trying to hide wherever she can and starts the "digging" at the floor. She won't take any treats while she's like this and I have even tried wet food (one of her favs, and I also even tried a piece of raw venison (her absolute fav), she won't even smell it. She looks at it and turns her head. If I gate her into one room she tries jumping over or through the gates. If I put her in the fenced back yard, she does the same. She once even squeezed through a 5 inch opening in the fence. She is pretty little for an EP about 31 lbs. This doesn't fit the classic separation anxiety as she only does this stuff when we are home. I have tried some of those tactics though. I ignore her when I come home. I try to ignore the panic attack, but I'm afraid she is actually going to hurt herself. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this?

[wildergamebirds]

When I was a kid, I would act about the same way when my dad wouldn't take me hunting.

  He had two cures.  A hunting trip, or a four inch wide ammo belt.  The belt didn't actually have to be applied for each episode.  My main problem was much the same as your pointer's.  We were both somewhat spoiled.  I raise my Brittanys in the house.  I've wondered if doing the same with an EP would smooth off some of the roughness, and make them a little more biddable than most.

  You have me a little scared.  I know my oldest is suffering some also.  I've been so busy raising birds, we haven't been spending much time on the purpose for the birds!

  I keep him busy in the house, and try to work a little on whoa, and retrieving each time we go out.  I have to go out with them every potty break since we have whipworm in the fenced yard.

  Does your dog act the same with all family members, or just you?  Is this mostly when you come home, after being gone all day?  Has anything else changed in the pack?  New human puppies can be the hardest thing on dogs.  Have you also been unable to spend as much "ear scratching" time with her?
 
  Generally, it is a good idea to ignore bad behavior, if you can not immediately correct it.  This may be different.  Her problem is likely caused by lack of attention, and not enough work/exercise.  I doubt that less attention, work, and exercise is the cure.  I am almost 100% sure she was not suffering from a Prozac deficiency in her blood! 

  I have several suggestions, I will post again tomorrow when I am more completely awake.  If you get a chance to answer these questions, it might help.  She is not lost, but you have a job ahead of you.

[AA Plantation]

I don't wish to sound harsh but,
Bird Dogs are for bird hunting. Not JUST a Pet. They can be a pet but, they also have to hunt.
English Pointers are not the most socialable dogs anyway. They prefer to eat, hunt, and hump. not necessarily in that order.
If you don't have time to hunt her, give her to someone that will.
I am kinda understanding that she still needs training. (If this is correct)
If she has not got it by 6yrs old she probably never will.

[jk]

I agree with Dale... got a neighbor that has two english pointer males and he keeps them in separate chain link pens of around 8x12 each. The things are pacing back and forth ALL the time and EXPLODE if they ever get outside of the pen. Those dogs are so full of energy that if you don't have the time/ability to LET THEM RUN and chase something, then you should get rid of them. They will not be content with sitting around. The neighbor I mentioned is an older fella and he really doesn't have the capability to take them out and hunt them anymore... everytime one gets out, it runs straight to our pond and starts chasing ducks or straight to my pens and paces back and forth, WANTING to chase a bird. Gotta play with that thing more ! Good luck with it.

Joseph K.

[MtBullion Gamebirds]

We just got rid of a litter of GSP's.  I hand chose the owners.  I would not let them go to people who did not hunt or did not understand that pointers need lots and lots of exercise and attention.  Ours gets hands on training every day and never put into a kennel, unless we are transporting to hunts.

[schultz]

Sounds like the dog is in bad need of exercise.
I own 2 GSP's and they require DAILY exercise, either take them running, to the public ground for them to run, put them on a leash and let them run along side my bicycle, (4-6 miles just before hunting season), hot weather take em for a swim.
Long tails are just like GSP's, they need daily exercise.

[tanyav1]

Hi and thanks for your comments and suggestions. Cali is an indoor dog and likes to lounge and cuddle. But you are right, her main focus in life is running and birds. She does get plenty of exercies every day and some mornings even after a 5 mile run she will come in the house and directly start the digging.

I think I have found the problem though. I believe she has a noise phobia. She gets very nervous when trucks go by and you'd think the garbage truck was going to kill her. My house if on a street right off a main highway that is on a hill. Sometimes when the semis go up the hill their loads shift and the ground even shakes.  So after watching really close for the last couple weeks, I think this is what I've narrowed it down to. I am going to be moving in a couple months and she seems to really love it at the new house. She hasn't had one panic attack there and I'm doing nothing different with her. I also took her up north last weekend and no problems their either. It only happens at my house. She is absolutely not gun shy and goes crazy wanting to hunt as soon as she sees the gun.  I incubated some quail this summer and the birds are about 5 weeks old now and flying pretty good, so I will be able to put her back on some birds and freshen up her skills a bit. 

I have had her on the prozac now for about 3 weeks and give her an alprazolam every morning, which seems to help tremendously with the nervousness with noises. Now just some behavior modification and noise conditioning and hopefully I can get her off the drugs soon.

Thanks again for your advice....

Tanya

[WHITNEYPLU]

I seen the same thing on Ghost Hunters one time maybe you should move to a place with a big yard. This way she can run, you know away from them menacing ghost of lost birds.
dusty

*above is only a dramatization no ghost were hurt in this post*

[wildergamebirds]

  So after watching really close for the last couple weeks, I think this is what I've narrowed it down to. I am going to be moving in a couple months and she seems to really love it at the new house. Tanya

  "Sometimes you can observe a lot by just watching" -  Yogi


  Where do you live?  Do you know if it is legal to kill birds at a shooting preserve all year, there?  If not, buy a few flight conditioned birds (adult, do not use your five week old Quail, no matter how well they fly)  and let them fly away after she points, and you flush the birds.  If you have to pay $50 or $100 for this, it will probably save you that much in Prozac.

  I am so glad to hear more about her, and especially that the medication will be a relatively short term thing.  You are probably right about the cause, dogs are very location oriented.  A friend had a Golden that was very well behaved, except in one small spot in her yard.  She paniced and jumped 3 feet sideways every time she was led to that spot.  It started after I led her out for a break, next to the street.  A car swerved to allow another to pass, and splashed icy water up her butt!  It was months before we put that one together!  She keyed on a gap in the curb that must have been right at her nose when it happened.  It was a lot funnier, and less serious than your problem.

  I'll bet something happened right after you came home one day, probably with a truck passing, maybe nearly hitting her, or maybe bumping her, or an earthquake that sounded the same.  Do you use an electronic collar to protect her from traffic?  Please don't forget to let us know, when she is perfect, again.

Jack

[sugar run gamebirds]

was your dog gun shy? my to gsp"s are freaks when it comes to noise or even like fireworks they think it is gunshots.they are looking to try and mark birds but never back away or run from noises.remember these are bird dogs they are trained for loud noises,finding birds,and running.have your vet checked her ears out?she might have an infection or even an ear drum problem.i have seen this problem in english setters to the point where they would even stop walking because they were scared of their own shadow.but we worked them through it.they never became great bird dogs but they sure became great friends and family members.we never call them pets.