Bleeding Legs on Bobs

[ncffp163]

Hi ya'll..

I'm having trouble with some of my Wis. jumbo Bobs. They've got bleeding legs/ knees (is that the proper term?). I've had 2 to die and 3-4 more with the bleeding and limping. Any ideas on what could be causing this. They're about 12 weeks or so old. I put a head of lettuce hanging from the the top of the pen and have a dust box. I have about 30 in a 4'X8' pen off the ground. Is there any thing else to do? Thanks!!

Eric

[aKirA]

you feeding them High protein feed? 28%-30% protein

[ncffp163]

aKirA,

Yes I am

[CharlieHorse]

Are you thinking that this is some sort of health related problem and not cannabalism/pecking?

30 birds in a 4x8 area is way too overcrowded in my opinion.

[jk]

Yes. I agree very much. That is way too small of a pen for that many birds...

[poultryman90]

Well, if you think about it, not really. Unfortunatly, it can't always be about opinion. This should be about facts. In the rollout cages, like you would find at GQF, it is a 4 bird capacity for a 10"x24" battery. This is approximately 2 square feet. If you break it down, thats .5 sq ft per bird. So a 4x8 is 32 sq ft. That should be enough for 64 quail, but to be comfortable, figure about 50. With this comparison, I would think that 30 would be just fine in a 4x8. Now, lets think of the real reason that these quail's legs are bleading. They have leg mites. Go out, and look closely at their legs, you will see tiny tiny bugs crawling around on them, which are hard to see, but they're there. Take some WWD 40, or some other type of lube and spray their legs down. This will drown the leg mites, and make them want to leave if they don't die. After that, take all the birds away from the pen, and spray the pen down with bleach water, and disinfect it. If they were simply getting pecked at, they would still be able to walk, and get to the feed and water, but with leg mites, they will be crippled, so try to act quick. Also give them some 7 dust in their dust bath. This should help too. Hope this helps,

Ethan King

[CharlieHorse]

Is that your opinion/guess or do you know for sure that's what is going on? And yes, I have thought about it and regardless of what works and what people do, that's too many birds in that area. I've also seen 14 horses raised in a 100x100' area.....that works too.

[jk]

You could raise and keep 50 bobwhites in a 4x8 area...but you ARE going to get picking and a lot of them dying because of overcrowding. The birds may live but will probably not be too healthy... Just because someone does something and it "works" for them doesn't mean it will work for everyone. I have heard people say they have a trio of silkies in a 2x2 area... that will work...but the birds will nowhere near thrive. If I would have to make a guess it would be because of other birds picking at legs. Leg mites would be less likely but could still MAYBE be a factor. But regardless of if there are leg mites, that is still too small of a pen for that many birds. IMHO, I would only keep 10-15 birds in there... they should have at least 3-5 sq.feet, AT LEAST. In that pen it is more like 1 sq. ft. per bird, which I think is not sufficient for ANY bird, no matter the size...

[drwink]

I agree, a little much for the size pen depending on the age.
had this problem 2 years ago. I lost a few before I noticed it. once they start bleeding the others won't leave them alone regaurdless of what the cause was.
You need to Isolate the bleeding birds, I had one that I saved and I didn't think I was going to be able to. had open bone exposed on both legs. She lost 2 toes also but wound up recovering and becoming a producer for the last 2 years.
I usually keep about 30 birds with no problems but the pen is 4 x 16

Wally

[Bloomingtongamebirds]

To many  birds in that amount of space, everytime I have had this happen it's an overcrowding thing.

[ncffp163]

Thanks ya'll for all the input. I was going on the 1 sq ft per bird, but i guess it wasn't enough. I appreciate all the help.

Eric

[stewaw]

Time for the old "scientific method"......One camp says leg "mites", one camp says leg "bites".....Split the birds into two equal sized pens and see what happens.....If it's simply pecking/crowding the symptoms should decrease or dissappear, if it's leg mites the problem will either stay the same or get worse.
My vote is overcrowding without knowing more about your pens.....

Keep us posted,
David

[Bird Brained]

Leg Mites (I know it as "scaley leg mites") will cause the scales on the legs to "lift" ,or seperate, and not lay as tight against one another.  Is this also the case?  Vasoline smeared over the legs will work too to smother out the mites.

You didn't mention the final use of the birds having the problem, or I didn't catch it (i.e. breeding, holding pen for dog training use, eating, grow pen for young, etc)....This would help me to make the best proposal to you on a long-term versus short term solution.

You mentioned the pen is off the ground....does it have a wire bottom or a solid bottom?  If wire, what type of wire and size?

If they are pecking at that age (12 weeks), I would also guess all their tail feathers are also missing (bob-tail bobwhites).  Is that also the case?

Anyway, if it's a short-term solution, you could debeak them all and if it's a picking problem, that should solve it for some time (if done with a hot blade debeaker, nail clippers will be shorter lived) and you can keep them all in that same pen.

Either way, some hiding cover would be good too.  Cut a 6 foot tall cedar tree down and lay it to one side of the pen....length way.  This will divide the pen up and give them some seperation.

[ncffp163]

Ok...here's the pen:
http://www.thatquailplace.com/smf/index.php?topic=2698.0

1/2X1/2 hardware galvanized cloth floor. Tail feathers are intact, no feathers missing anywhere that I can see

[Reeves]

Is there any way you can take some pictures of the problem areas & post them ? Would help us help you faster/better.

(but I also think crowding)