Classroom pheasant project help

[jwinsor]

I am in need of some answers... I guess I'll start with some background information.  I wrote a grant to start a pheasant project at the high school at which I work (Central Michigan).  We are calling the project "Pheasants in the Classroom" (I know ... really creative!)  The purpose of the project is to introduce students into conservation and natural resources but we also use it in a variety of other units of study including embryology, ecology, FFA, ect.  The grant got us money to build a 24x24 fly away coop and also a 12x10 shed attached to the coop.  Due to pressures from a few people in the community i put up a heat lamp in the shed that runs day and night (you wouldn't believe the crazies that come out of the woodwork when you work in public education... everyone thinks they know whats best for animals... i'm probably going to have to rename the pheasants "feather kittens"... i digress)  Anyway, One of the pheasants layed an egg outside the door of the coop last night and it froze.  If it was fertilized would I have seen blood in the yolk or would it have frozen before it had a chance to develop blood?  Is it possible that the reason for the egg is that I have the heat lamp running day and night?  If I have birds starting to lay this early will that affect how late in the season they continue to lay eggs?  I would rather they start laying in two months... not now, but if it doesn't matter then I guess that I don't care that they are laying now.  Any insight you may have regarding this project would be much appreciated.  Thank in advance.

[wildergamebirds]

  Others will have more to offer, including comments about your do-gooders.  You might put a timer on the light, so it's on at the times they might check on it.  They may well cause some of your birds to kill each other.  I'll be glad to tell any of them that, in terms they will never forget.  Another option might be a thermostat, set at -20F The approximate temperature at which Pheasant begin to be effected by the cold.  By all means, use only a red bulb.

[wildergamebirds]

  AND...


                           

  Our education system needs 100,000 of you, not more money thrown at it.

[greyghost]

Wilder. well said. jwinsor 24 hours of light will induce hens to lay. I have hens ( Quail ) that will not lay untill we have 14 hours of daylight. That is nature at it's best.
 
 Pheasant chicks need to be brooded at 98% week one, then lessen heat by 5% each week. In seven weeks the chicks are able to create their own body heat in calories, due to their metabolic rate of digestion.

Calories, like degrees are a rate of measure. Food creates calories when digested. At the same time the sun creates heat as it comes closer to the earth. If you think of the sun as a large meal eaten by the earth in spring, then metabolizes all summer, you have it.

[Reeves]

I have invited Dan Cowell to post in regards to this topic. He is working with schools in Missouri.

http://www.animalwonders.net/

http://www.gbwf.org/phpBB3/

[birddog]

Welcome jwinsor. sounds like a great project. best of luck to you. I would think your state dept of fish and game or whatever they are called in Michigan would help educate the so called know it alls with some background information on Pheasant. do they think wild birds come equipped with foot warmers? by making you provide heat 24-7 they are turning natural resources into unnatural resources and making the birds do something they would not do in the wild.

or you could show them the frozen egg and  say see look what  happend! explain that the extra light  is making them lay eggs at the wrong time of year and now you need volunteers to watch for eggs
so this tragedy does not happen again see how many step up

[Dan Cowell]

Already some good advice given, so will add just a little.  I would put together an "open house" for the concerned people (if you were in MO, I'd do it for you!!), give a program on basic bird biology and anatomy, should open their eyes and give them a better understanding of the birds' needs.  If you need some ideas, shoot me an e-mail.  You can also find some good material on the Project WILD website. 

As mentioned switch to red heat lamp (to suffice those who still think they know best) and set on a timer.  The hens may or may not lay again, I have at it both ways.  As happened to me when housing finches & hookbills in with pheasants during the winter; some hens lay a clutch in January and that's it, others may clutch in January and again in May.

Good luck with your project!!

Dan 

 

[jwinsor]

Thanks for all of the input.  Will my birds have a problem with me reverting the light back quickly or will I need to progressively reduce it?  I had 5 more eggs when I came in this morning (two frozen, three in shed)... I'm going to put them in the incubator and see if they start to develop.  I didn't see any blood when I candled them though... after the 7th day I should see vessils correct?  If the temperature was in the 40's I wouldn't mind collecting eggs now and incubating, but the birds keep laying eggs outside and they are frozen by the time I find them.  Last year we just incubated and we got eggs from a dealer in the area... I didn't deal with all this extra stuff, I just put the eggs in the incubator and pulled the chicks out at the end.  I'm finding out that I need to learn a lot more regarding the biology of the pheasants.  Give me a year and a whole lot of questions and I might be able to get this figured out. The people that were complaining don't seem like the type to show up at an open house but I'm going to see what I can do.  One person inparticular was upset with me when I explained to her that pheasants carried their habitat on their bodies in the form of feathers.  I think that she may have noticed my hint of snobishness  .  Anyway... as mentioned I am open to any suggestions that any of you may have regarding this project.  Our 10 grade biology students do the majority of the work with this, but we are talking about starting an upper level Ecology class that would go even more in depth.  Any insight would be used...  We will start our ecology unit in another month or two. 
Thanks again.
Jeremy Winsor

[Reeves]

I'd shut the light off now, no need to cut back the light.

Having said that....I have a small 25w blue light in my "houses" . I had to do this, as they always went to roost late. This of course meant it was darker inside their houses, so they wouldn't go inside at night. The light is just enough to provide them the needed light to find the roosts.
So it depends on what kind of protective structure you have for them.

I always candle at 7-10 days, then again at about 15 days. The reason for candling again at 15, is at 12-13th day is a point in incubation where the embryo can die. You often will see a red ring when this happens.

I also wouldn't set eggs randomly like you are doing.
I found it best to collect eggs for 7-10 days , then set them.
The reason for doing it this way, is so you do not end up with a traffic jam at the hatcher. It will also give you time to clean and sterilize the hatcher between hatches.

For more on this : http://www.thatquailplace.com/smf/index.php?board=11.0

Also, do not be shy about contacting Dan Cowell for help ! I cannot think of another person who could assist in your project as well as he can !

[jwinsor]

Is there a temperature in which I should store the eggs before I put them in the incubator?

[Reeves]

Yes.

See in link in my last post. Lots of info on what you seek.
(sticky topics at top of page)

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

I would just like to ask a few question on this subject, and it is addressed to the originator of this topic, jwinsor.

Then I would like to state the situation we have here in WV.

You state that you work at a high school in Central Michigan.  Did you have to get a specific type of State DNR permits/license to do this? If so, what were the procedures in obtaining them, and what other political  did you have to go through to accomplish this.

This the situation here in WV. Flat out and to the point. They do not give out a tempory wild game farm license to schools. They won't issue a license to a 4-H club or group either. It is a shame, I have had middle schools asking for pheasant eggs to do just as you are doing. The schools check into it and they were told no.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[TENNESSERED]

It sounds like a great project for the school.  Hopefully it will encourage some of the students to take an intrest in raising gamebirds.  Sadly, fewer and fewer people are taking an interest in raising these birds.  As far as your situation.  By having the light on in the house all the time you are encouraging your hens to lay.  Ring necks are very hardy.  I am from Idaho where we always had  temps below 0 degrees in the winter.  -25 was not uncommon .  Since you have a coop built for them if you will train( simply shoo them into the house at sunset for a couple of weeks, then they will go in on their own.) them to roost in the koop they can take very cold temps and do very well without any heat at all!  Make sure they have water to drink at least 2 to 3 times a day when the temps drop below freezing and a good supply of food and they will do just fine.  Good luck with their project!

[jwinsor]

I checked a few of the eggs today to see if they had started to develop.  There is no blood in them.  I'm assuming that my roosters arn't doing their job.  Could the problem be that the roosters arn't on the same cycle as the hens because of how early they started to lay?  I would really like to collect the eggs from our birds this year to incubate the eggs but i'm concerned about the fertility (we don't have many funds left to be able to go out and buy more eggs this year).  I am considering putting lamps on the birds and moving them into the shed alone.  I'm looking for some insight into this.  I am collecting 8 eggs a day and I have 10 hens.  If you all think that my hens will continue to lay through the spring and summer I won't worry about it, because the roosters and hens should eventually be cooperating.  What to you think... you all have a ton more experience with this than I do and I never studied any bird physiology during college that will help me any either.  Thanks 

[wildergamebirds]

  Others know a lot more about Pheasant, but until I learn different, my suggestion would be to shut the light off.  Use a baseboard heater (or similar) to keep an area in the shed above zero if you have to please Gladys Kravitz. 

  Save their egg production for when you need it.  Artificial lighting can stretch the number of eggs they produce, but it's sure not unlimited.  It is possible that the males have not been sufficiently stimulated, but I would bet your problem is related to the cold.