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Brittany Training Problem

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Missourihunter85:
I bought a new male Brit a few weeks ago, he's about 16 months, from the Nolan's Last Bullet blood line, and my problem is that he knows what he's doing and when I keep him close and not give him time to run he does fine, he's got a good whoa on him, and a good here, when i keep his attention but when i let him run and take his attention off of me for a bit he won't listen to me, and just run off. I don't want to burn him too bad on the collar, bc he seems pretty timid and don't want to get him collar shy, but I don't want to encourage this behavior. He does fine when i put him on the whoa stick and check cord as well. I am clueless on what to do to get him to listen, I'm wanting to take him to field trials w/ my female, but if he doesn't listen to me 100% of the time i won't take him.

wildergamebirds:

  First, congratulations (or condolences).

  All of mine were sired, or grandsired by NLB.  They can be a little like driving a Winston Cup car on a quarter mile dirt track!  Not always fun, often nerve racking, but a hell of a ride!  This is true with several of the modern American Brittany lines.  My five year old has a natural range of about 600 yards ( a little long for timber hunting!  I've managed to reel him in to about 250 most of the time, but let him run, when hunting Chickens in Kansas and Nebraska.  Once they know what you want, if they care, they will hunt where you want them. 

  What e-collar do you use?  How many levels?  16 is about the minimum you need, 30 or 50 is better.  Otherwise you create "E-collar overstepping" (tm), a condition that can cause tons of trouble.  Once you know, and use the exact amount of stimulation you need, you'll love the collar.  You can stop a dog cold, or even flip him, with too high a setting.  That's not training.  Obviously, you know that.  Once you know your dogs thresholds (which can change, with conditions), you can "finesse" a dog off a hot deer run, as if he just decided to do something different.

  I use DT collars, partly because of durability and customer service, but manly because they have a remote launcher that is all metal, except the throwing net.  I would never use a collar without vibration feature.  I train mine to feel the vibration as praise.  When a dog ranges farther than I like, for the terrain, daudles, or digs for rats, I can reach out and "pet" him behind the ears, and he remembers he's hunting for me.  No stress, no fear.  You can do this with stimulation, but it is not as smooth, and the dog may tend to return all the way back to you.  If you blend the stimulation with verbal, or whistle commands, the stimulation won't be needed much.  Successfully blend in hand signals, and you will look like the all time God of dog trainers.

  My guess is that he was trained by, and hunted with someone else, which could cause him to wander a bit, and hunt for himself.  Treating him as your only dog (as far as he knows) for a couple of weeks will help.  Take him in the truck with you, let him ride in the cab.  Let him sleep on the foot of the bed, some.  Married to a non-hunter? (shame on you) A crate next to your side of the bed is almost as good.

  Now, specifics.  Plant a bird to the left of the main field, 200-300 yards out.  Hunt him down the opposite side, letting him range out farther than you like (well past the bird.  Lead the female over to the scent cone of the planted bird.  When she points, try to get the male's attention.  Use the collar lightly, if that works.  Flush, and kill the bird while he is way out, so the female can retrieve, before he gets to you.  If you can then take them both directly to another planted bird, he may be cured in one session.  Or it may take ten, but he will eventually start hunting for you.  I would bet on you turning him around in 5 sessions or less.  Then you have to get him on birds fairly often, or he may regress. Direct him into birds in unlikely places.  That will establish you as head bird finder for the pack.  He'll look to you for directions to the birds.  Remote launchers will speed this process.

  Just remember that even though he is hard headed, he is likely soft hearted, so use a soft approach.  This adds to the nerve racking, but is the only way to deal with most them.

  You sure have the right idea, not to put him in trials before you have control.  Would be good if you can train some on the trial grounds.  Will you be in NSTRA? or which format?

Missourihunter85:
Thanks, I think he's going to be one hell of a dog once we get over this little obstacle. The collar I have is a D.T., model EZT plus 1000. It does have 16 levels, and I'm going to trade it in for a 2 dog system sometime soon. I will try what you said, it sounds pretty straight forward.

Truthfully I'm really not even sure, I have never ran in one, and the one that I am going to run them in is one that the local Quail Unlimited puts on every year. Depending on how they do there is how much I'm going to do this year. My female I have high hopes for she's from the MicroDot line and is great in the field. I'm sure he'll do fine just may (hopefully not) need another year of work before he gets out there.

wildergamebirds:

  I would suggest pinching pennies, waiting, a season, getting a part time job, or what ever it takes to get an SPT 2432.  Two dog (wish they made it in 3 dog), vibration, nick, continuous, rise, jump, and a beep/locater that will activate from nearly half a mile.  Range for other features is 1.3 miles and with six inch antennae it will reach over 1.5 miles in the real world, not just estimated.  And believe it, or not, I don't make a dime, if you buy one. lol

  I hate to put pressure on you, but if your dogs don't do well, it's probably not because of breeding!  The orange and white in the picture to the left was sired by Buddy, with Microdot three generations back on the bottom side, as well as Tequila's Joker as Grandsire.  With all that fire in his genes, he usually hunts out only about 100-150 yards.

  A couple of things I didn't mention.  At 16 months, a Brittany is little more than a puppy, even though many point, back, and retrieve pretty well at 6 months.  They mature slowly, so don't count him out, if you catch him chasing flies at three years old.  Nothing brings them around like wild birds, if you can find them.  But do not take him out on wild Pheasant until you've seen a good, solid season on other birds.  Wild Pheasant can be hard on a seasoned dog, they cause them to crowd and creep on point.  Quail, and especially Grouse will not stand for that.

  I think QU uses a format very similar to The Bird Dog Challenge, and what many small clubs use.  Sort of a simplified version of NSTRA.  20 points each for point, and retrieve, and one back per run.

Briar Hill Brittanys:
The NLB line is a good line.  Like all bloodlines, individual dogs can exibit different behaivors.  The best thing I could recommend is to take him back to the yard training, and make sure he's rock solid on his basic obedience.  That's really the basis for everything.  You say he's got a good whoa, and a good here, but when you let him run he won't listen.  In my humble opinion, that's not a good here.  Not trying to chastise you, one of the first rules of training is never give a command you're not able to enforce.  Always set pup up to succeed when training.  Did you change his call name, or keep the same commands as the person you got him from?  He's been able to range out, and not been corrected/trained to hunt closer.  I agree with wilder, make him a close part of your family.  He'll come to know you, and what's expected of him.  Patience and perseverance pay off with Brittanys.

I too, have that bloodline in my kennel.  They are excellent hunters, typical soft hearted Brittanys.  Also have Microdot, Rimarda, and Tequila lines.  They are all typical, soft hearted, eager to please and quick learning.

Holy cow wilder.....................600yards?

Respectfully,
Mark 

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