Red tailed Hawks and Owls

[CharlieHorse]

Can anyone explain to me what happened hear.  If you don't want to thats fine but i can't understand what happened.

Read.

[tanaro2]

Apparently some people were having trouble with birds of prey invading their game bird pens.  Now, not knowing alot about gamebirds myself and trying to learn, I found this topic on Hawks and Owls while searching through the board.  Being a Falconer and reading some misconceptions about the birds I thought I would offer some insight and ideas (legally) how to solve the problem that some of the members seemed to be having.  It appeared that some of the advice given (sarcastically or not) were major legal issues that could result in some people getting in hot water.  The law is the law.  I didn't make it up, and you would be surprised at what all the proper officials could do if they found such illegal activity.  Having a hawk trap on your person or property can result in loosing your gamebird permits if its required by your state.  Just talking about ways to trap the Hawks could get you investigated.  This is all that I tried to lend to the conversation for information that some people may not know about.  Instead I got more replies with more misinformed info and explained to the replies in a mature conversation.  Well instead of being thanked for what I deemed useful info under the circumstances, I am now labled a KNOW IT ALL.  I  guess some people can't handle facts and name calling is there only defense.  To make matters far worse, another WANT TO BE falconer decided to make an a$$ out of himself and started a bunch of name calling.  Total immature and unnecessary.  The post was removed and rightfully so.  Nonetheless, somehow, someway, I got grouped with this idiot since we apparently have falconry in common and I myself have been quoted as asking a bunch of stupid question (2 to be exact) and a know it all.  As for the other poster.......I can't speak for him and it was wrong to post what he did and made all falconers look like A$$e$.  I personally do not know him and I am ashamed of his actions along with several other Falconers who use this board as well.

[birdguy888]

Ok everyone, first off I was asked to join this group to help resolve the raptor (bird of prey issue).  I'm very open minded but I have a mouth that matches it.  I have been a falconer for 22 years and i have also raised quail, pigeons and phesants.  I'm not going to fill your computer screen with junk, only the truth and some remedies so here we go:

First off stop shooting the raptors.  The fact is they were here long before you and they need to eat.  You guys usually have thousands of quail and hundreds, if not thousands, of other game birds.  Loosing a few isn't gong to harm your flock when you consider they kill and eat each other!  Game birds are canabalistic and can be quite violent towards each other.

Eating time:  Raptors eat at an oportunistic rate.  If food is available they will kill enough to eat; they do NOT kill for fun.  Owls, specifically the nocturnal ones like great horned, long eared, short eared and barn owls only kill at night but will occassionaly kill during the day in the summer when they have young to feed.

These birds are all protected heavily by State and Federal law.  All it takes is one person on this forum to turn your username in and the Moderator is required by law to release your information.  Killing any protected species under State and Federal law is up to a $2000 fine and up to 2 years in prison (not your local jail, but actual prison) for every offense they find you have committed.

Migration:  I'm sure you notice more problems for about a month or two during the spring and fall.  This is migration when birds are moving in and moving out.  Some birds stay and do not migrate either because the species does not generally migrate or they are a very established pair that simply chooses not too.  All raptors are territorial but to different extents.  Except for the accipiters like the goshawk which you'll NEVER see at your game farm, all other hawks simply dive at a perp that is near their nest and do not make contact.  Their biggest issue is screaming at you.  Someone mentioned they have seen up to 5 raptors on their flight.  This is either during migration or babies that have fled the nest and are learning to hunt.  75% of raptors die from starvation within 1-3 months after leaving the nest.  You know how you feel when hungry, imagine starving to death!

Remedies:  Putting a solid, cheap roof over the top of the flight will help drastically.  Those coragated fiber glass sheets are cheap and work well while still allowing light to go through.  Someone mentioned putting fake snakes on top or using garden hoses......raptors eat snakes so that is pointless and nothing is that afraid of a garden hose!  Many people use those fake owls which work ok if you get the one with the bobble head and it needs to be moved to a different location every few days or the other birds get used to it.  ALL raptors are terrified of great horned owls because the owls kill and eat every other raptor, including golden eagles!!!

Another thing that works well is those round, smooth mirror balls.  The light reflecting off of them scares away most raptors.

Still having problems.....fish and game or game and fish will NOT remove the raptors from your property but there is a LEGAL way to do this every fall (in Utah it is from Sept. 1 to Jan. 31 of each year).  Call your local game department and ask them for a list of falconers in your state and call them and ask if they will trap on your property in the fall when trapping season starts for falconers.  If they aren't going to trap that season, leave your name and number with them and I can guarantee you'll be getting phone calls from their friends.  Falconers can legally trap these birds each fall which can remove these birds from your property using specific traps designed to easily trap them safely so that we can train and use them for hunting.  This way makes you happy and makes the falconer happy too.  Each "class" or level of falconer can take certain birds so you can expect to have several people on your property at different times trapping these birds for you.  The most common birds your having problems with are gong to be red-tail hawks, cooper's hawks, sharp-shinned hawks, prairie falcons, peregrine falcons (depending on where you live), merlins and great horned owls.  Depending on the falconers class, all these birds are legal for falconers to take.  If they catch one of these birds that is out of their class designation, all it takes is a phone call from one of them to another falconer and the bird can be transfered to them.  If haggards (adult birds) are caught, simply ask the falconer to relocate the bird far away to a proper location.  Ask them to do this so that it won't bother your flock.  Falconers are more than happy to do this because having the haggards alive provides more birds for us falconers in the future.

While some of you would never admit it, raptors are  facinating to see and watch hunt.  The fact is if you are one of these people (and I know you won't openly admit it here), use it to your advantage.  Again, on game farms, there are always old, sick or injured game birds in your flock that are cull birds and will be killed anyway.  In order to help keep the raptors away from your flights, take these cull birds out several yards away (or as far as you can take it) from your flight and if they still have a lot of flight in them, clip the flight feathers on their wings and set them on the ground and walk away.  This way the raptors will kill and eat these birds and will leave your good ones alone.  Once again, when the raptor is full, it won't kill again until hungry.

I hope this has helped and I'll check this board once every night to answer any questions so if you have a questions please feel free to ask and I'll answer it.

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

Well here we are once again, 12-08-06 the Red-Tailed and it seems Coopers Hawk have been hanging around the pen.

I have had 3 related pheasant deaths in the pen. I have also had two pheasants with their legs caught in the top flight netting. Needless to say, those two bird didn't make it. I guess they died from stress and hanging upside down.

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[stewaw]

Steve,
  Sorry for your losses. I'm seeing a lot more hawks here also. That time of year and around here we had a very tough drought that reduced forage and prey species so the hawks are having a very tough time making a living.  Normally during this time I have my chickens penned as I hate finding those three month old nests during spring cleaning. This year I've gone ahead and left them out free range with the thought that I'd rather sacrifice a few game hens as opposed to damage to the pens and potential loss of game birds.  So far I haven't had any damage and I'm hoping that late rains we got will result in a bloom of prey species that will take some of the pressure off of my yard.

David

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

Steve,
  Sorry for your losses. I'm seeing a lot more hawks here also. That time of year and around here we had a very tough drought that reduced forage and prey species so the hawks are having a very tough time making a living.  Normally during this time I have my chickens penned as I hate finding those three month old nests during spring cleaning. This year I've gone ahead and left them out free range with the thought that I'd rather sacrifice a few game hens as opposed to damage to the pens and potential loss of game birds.  So far I haven't had any damage and I'm hoping that late rains we got will result in a bloom of prey species that will take some of the pressure off of my yard.

David

Hi David!!

A Happy belated Thanksgiving to you and a Merry Christmas!

The hawk problem seems to settle down when someone dump this huge Chicken Rooster on my property back in June. This jet-black rooster has feathers going down on each side of his legs. He roams the property as if he owns it.

The rooster has also made himself comfortable in side the barn and goes to roost at 4pm each night.

While I was out this morning around 8am butchering the doe I got yesterday at 4.55pm. I had a Red-Tail Hawk perched high in the pines behind the barn. I guess being out there with 3 dogs curb the hawk’s appetite.

Yesterday was the first time I had a chance to get out. The doe weighed in at 120 lbs. I took her out with a Winchester 94 in the trapper model with a 16” barrel and in 44mag. The distance was about 60 yards.

I usually hang the deer for 7-14 days weather permitting. It got cold enough last night. 20 degrees but the temps by noon were in the upper 40 and finally hit 54 by 2pm. So needles to say, I had to butcher her up.

How are the birds doing? I have never in my life seen it this slow. I only sold 4 birds, and they wanted the birds for a Christmas dinner. I still have over 800 birds in my pen. If this keeps up, I will be eating birds on a daily basis for the next 4 months!!!!

Well David, nice hearing from ya and Have a wonderful Christmas!!

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

[stewaw]

Hey Steve,
  Sorry so long to respond.....got slapped down about two weeks ago and thought my insides were going to explode. Turned out to be a "defective" gall bladder that had to come out.  The recovery has taken less time than the diagnosis/schedule/surgery.  I think my surgeon moonlights as a vet and it's early calving season here.
  Birds are doing ok in fact I've only lost one adult since July and I think that one was just one of those things since I've had no problems out of his pen mates.
  As for deer, this has been a banner year at our household- my 12yo Daughter got her first deer (5 point) and I've gotten three bucks.  My largest for the season is a 120 class 8 point I shot out of my yard on opening morning.......I had been suffering from bronchitis and couldn't bear to go into the woods with all the hacking and coughing but I also couldn't pass up opening morning so I just took my coffee out to the bee hives and watched the sun come up thinking I might get a shot across the pasture. About 30 min after daylight I heard the goats give their intruder "wheeze" and looked up to see the nice 8 pt walking nose to the ground through their pen obviously on the trail of a last night doe.  I had to wait until he cleared the goats and the chain link fence and hammered him from about 45 yds....... Wife and kids come boiling out of the house at the shot and I look down at the steaming coffee sitting on the beehive, the sun rising and the beautiful deer and remark- It truely doesn't get much better than this.

David

[Redhorse]

Cool story...I ALMOST got a deer right behind my bee hives one year. I walked back to the stand and went past my hives on my way. It was warm, and a few bees were active...I was so focused on the bees, I never saw the deer standing 15 yds behind the hives (it's brushy but still).

My son (11) got his second buck this year, a nine point. Last years (his first deer) was a 120 class 8 point and I thought he was gonna be spoiled after that. He almost passed this years buck because it was "kinda small".

Glad to hear you are doing OK after the medical problems, and it's great you got your girl out there this year. My oldest daughter is 9 and she is chomping at the bit. She already sits in the duck blind with me, and helps call them in. I think next year she will get to start shooting also (she's already a good shot).