That Quail Place Forum
Raising Gamebirds => General Discussion => Topic started by: birddog on October 15, 2008, 11:56:11 PM
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about two weeks ago I moved my bobwhite quail pen to the other side of the yard and the next morning I found one dead. no visible problems, young birds all healthy. I figured he got spooked and crashed into the top of the pen. but two days later, two more dead. then I realized I had relocated the pen under a large oak tree. and there are a lot of acorns in the pen. I covered the roof with a tarp and now after about a week no more casualties what do you think. could they have been taken out by an acorn? or just coincidence
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could they have been taken out by an acorn? or just coincidence
Uh huh.
I would bet on simple stress. But, i know green acorns will founder a horse Wild Quail eat acorns, from black jack oak, here. but maybe not this early, and have lots of other food sources to mix in.
Not much help, maybe but all I know
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no I,m talking about falling acorns bopping them in the head. I don,t see any signs of them trying to eat them. and there are a lot of acorns this year every time the wind blows everything in range gets pelted.
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With a really tall tree, and really heavy acorns, maybe. Then, if it hit the net as it went through the hole, velocity would drop way off, and the bird would have to have it's head in just the right place.
I think were back to stress.
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no I,m talking about falling acorns bopping them in the head. I don,t see any signs of them trying to eat them. and there are a lot of acorns this year every time the wind blows everything in range gets pelted.
j41, Take the dead bird to a radiologist and have an x-ray done, or skin the birds head and check for any blunt force tramma. j1
Actually, depending on the hole size of the topflight netting you have, I would think that the falling acorns would have slowed down prior to hitting the ground in the pen.
Now if you were talking about either Buckeye's or Black Walnuts falling, and the possibility of taking the birds out, yes :?: Otherwise, I think it is stress as well. Did you give them any electrolites when you made the move?
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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no walnuts here and if by buckeyes you mean chestnuts they died off around here years ago. the top of the pen is 1 inch chicken wire so with the quantity of acorns that are falling I would imagine a lot clear the wire. these things fall on the cars in the driveway and sound like someone threw a rock at it. I have never seen anything like it. should be good for the deer c110 no electrolites after the move the pen is raised and on wheels and I only moved it about 75 feet across the yard so that shouldn't,t have been too bad but there has been a lot more activity around here lately . combonation of all could be stressfull. medicated water coming up. still no more deaths any how. I think I am getting the hang of it now. hatched 50 eggs late spring lost these 3 birds I,l take that.
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no walnuts here and if by buckeyes you mean chestnuts they died off around here years ago. the top of the pen is 1 inch chicken wire so with the quantity of acorns that are falling I would imagine a lot clear the wire. these things fall on the cars in the driveway and sound like someone threw a rock at it. I have never seen anything like it. should be good for the deer c110 no electrolites after the move the pen is raised and on wheels and I only moved it about 75 feet across the yard so that shouldn't,t have been too bad but there has been a lot more activity around here lately . combonation of all could be stressfull. medicated water coming up. still no more deaths any how. I think I am getting the hang of it now. hatched 50 eggs late spring lost these 3 birds I,l take that.
Buckeyes and Chestnuts two different types of nut.
American chestnut you can eat. Buckeye is a no-no. I was told that one half of the Buckeye is poisonous, while the other half is edible. The only animal that can differentiate this is the grey squirrel, so they say.
I think CharlieHorse would know more on this.
Anyway, glad to hear that no more losses have occured.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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My guess is that acorns could have dropped on the pen and made a rustling noise which could have spooked the bird(s).
I dont know how a Bobwhite could have opened an acorn.
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Buckeyes and Chestnuts two different types of nut.
LOL! Kinda like Pheasant Hollow and I?
Pheasant hollow is correct on the buckeye.
I dont know how a Bobwhite could have opened an acorn.
That would depend on the acorn, depending on your location and variety of oaks. Most all acorns would be too hard. But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn that the birds could easily eat. Although I can't imagine them hurting the birds even if they did eat a few. I have a few of these trees in my yard and the deer absolutely love them. They will sprout roots (about 4-8" long) soon after falling to the ground in the fall, while most nuts have to be stratified in order to grow.
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CharlieHorse,
s020 If you are going to use Big words like "stratified," please keep in mind that the members here are birdie. If you are going to use Botanical Terms, list the source, or explain the methods of such procedures. i9
That would depend on the acorn, depending on your location and variety of oaks. Most all acorns would be too hard. But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn that the birds could easily eat. Although I can't imagine them hurting the birds even if they did eat a few. I have a few of these trees in my yard and the deer absolutely love them. They will sprout roots (about 4-8" long) soon after falling to the ground in the fall, while most nuts have to be stratified in order to grow. LOL! Kinda like Pheasant Hollow and I?
For those that do not understand the term stratification.
What is stratification? Stratification is artificially overcoming a seed's dormancy by placing it in layers of moisture-retaining media (paper towel, potting soil, etc.) and keeping it under generally cool and moist conditions for a period of time. This will simulate winter conditions, according to the Garden Web Glossary of Botanical Terms (http://www.gardenweb.com).
This paragraph has been copied from: http://www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/articles/adams/2002/stratification_of_seeds.htm
Steve j41
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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My guess is that acorns could have dropped on the pen and made a rustling noise which could have spooked the bird(s).
That's a good guess. Those things can scare the livin' ____ out of ya, especially on a metal roof.
There's so many walnuts this year, it sounds like bricks hitting the ground out in the woods.
or explain the methods of such procedures.
s020 I figured that's what the internet was for? :wink: There's a dozen ways of doing it, and the type of seed/nut that you're working with changes how the procedure should be done. One can even use sandpaper (break moisture barrier) to stratify some seeds. As I had mentioned in another thread a few months ago, I had collected thistle seed from the prior year and then planted it this spring, then when nothing came up.............DUH!!.... I had to make myself my own sign........!
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But the Chestnut oak (rounded leaves, resembles elm leaves) produces a huge soft juicy acorn
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Charliehorse I have never heard of a Chestnut oak. do you have a picture or link ? our acorns are about quarter size at the big end. the chestnuts as I remember were light brown with a dark brown center. (Buckeye)?? and were roasted and eaten. it has been so long since I have seen a chestnut tree that I almost forgot what they looked like. the street that I grew up on was lined both sides with chestnut trees and we used to have chestnut fights it was best in the spring when the nuts weren't ripe , the nut was inside a green casing that had spikes all over it. the spikes were soft until the nuts ripened then they would harden and were like a miniature mace we were nasty little brats
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our acorns are about quarter size at the big end.
With or without the "hat"? If it's that big without the "hat", then that would be the biggest acorn I ever heard tell of. Do you know what kind of oak tree that it is?
The leaves on a Chestnut Oak don't resemble the everyday oak tree (red, white, black oaks), if a person didn't know what it was, they may not realize it is an oak.
I don't know that the American chestnut exists anywhere? I'll have to refresh my memmory on them.
Look here:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/forestry/trees/oak_chestnut/tabid/5391/Default.aspx
http://www.radfordpl.org/wildwood/today/Plant_articles/Chestnut_Oak.htm
http://ostermiller.org/tree/chestnutoak.html
we were nasty little brats
Fresh horse turds are good for fights too! c109 We throw some around here every once in a while. Wildergamebirds and Reeves are the best at throwing the stuff around. ^-^ Slider's not too bad, but he tends to get some on him.
s020
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There is a small remnant of American Chestnuts that is at least partially resistant to tbe blight, there are isolated pockets of them around the former range, but increasing.
NYS has a few around, my home in upstate NY has a few, I have seen some up to 8-10" in dia. Some above that start to show symptoms of the blight but by then they have started bearing nuts. Each generation seems to get bigger before they succumb to the blight. Right now there are some 20-30 year old trees, they start bearing around 15-20 years old.
A long ways yet from the old giants of earlier years.
There is also a national org that is sponsoring growing of resistant strains, and also a hybrid of an oriental chestnut that is resistant for yard and urban planting. So the Chestnut isnot extinct, but struggling. There was a nursery near Rochester, NY that was growing the resistant one and the hybrids.
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the losses resume. losing 1 or 2 per day seems to be at night. I noticed they are huddling together lately instead of doing their own thing as before. they have plenty of cover inside the pen. they have been outside for the last few months . all I can think of is that its getting cold too fast we have had a couple good frosts lately.
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all I can think of is that its getting cold too fast we have had a couple good frosts lately.
That may be why they're huddling together, but it wouldn't be killing them.
Since you say it is at night, my guess would be that something is harrassing them. That they are banging against the pen. :-|
I noticed they are huddling together lately instead of doing their own thing as before.
"Safety in numbers"...........they may be terrified if something is bothering them. They usually don't covey up during the daylight hours unless it's darn cold for an extended period. I don't know what your pen is made of (metal roof?), but is it possible those numerous acorns falling and banging the cage are keeping them startled? .............or you've got a disease, etc. ???
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Better open up any that have expired in the last two days. Check intestines, and liver, especially, but also lungs. Any "snot bubbles", or white stuff around their nostrils, or mouth? Have any of the "expirees" had thin breasts?
We may have been distracted from something curable by the acorns. Have they been wormed, regularly? Is the ground in the pen damp?
If you can, take pictures of everything you see that might be wrong. Post pictures here, including pictures of their skinned breasts. (Better PM those to me SUZ may be lurking).
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I think that since the couple of day's frost that you have had, could very well be the problem of the birds being startled from the acorns bouncing off the top of the pen. I believe you stated that it is chicken wire and not a fabric type top flight netting that you are using.
My opinion on disease is less likely. Thin breasts, CRD, take longer then what is happening. No reason on worming since the birds are on a wire and not in contact to the ground.
Move the pen to another location or, place a tarp above the pen enclosure and angle it off to keep the acorns from a direct hit.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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Steve your reply is on the money as far as the pen. all wire. off ground plenty food and water no change in feed birds look fat and healthy. there is a tarp over half the pen so between that and the cover inside the pen the frost should not be getting to them today one minute they would be huddled together and half hour later they would be all over the pen. doing their own thing . as far as the acorns I do not think that is the problem. I think they have all fallen. and the cold factor. I hope that is not the case or I will lose them all it hasn,t been that cold and warms up nicely during the day. and they have been outside all along. ???
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cold factor.
It would have to be darn cold for a spell and no shelter for the cold to be a factor. They can take quite a dip in temperature, especially with any shelter.
:-| Got me? I don't have a clue...... :-|
Back to the disease/infection/flue.......... ???
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the sky is falling ...the sky is falling j45 ooops thats not birdie it granny s story time language lol j47
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So birddog, how are they holding up? Any more loses?
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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had a big argument with the wife yesterday. she decided that they were getting cold because the wind could blow up through the bottom of the pen. and she wanted to put some hay on the bottom. I let her put a little near the door. wouldn,t you know the little buggers dug into the hay and I did not lose any last night. coincidence ?? I hope so. for my sake ::)
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We'd like to see a picture of your set-up with a wind speed + temperature reading.
:?:
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Here's a picture of those Chestnut Oak acorns compared to others.
Black Walnut, Buckeye, Chestnut oak, White oak, Black oak.
As you can see compared to the others, the Chestnut oak is considerably larger than the other oaks shown.
That shiny thing is a penny. :grin:
Disregard date stamp, click on picture to enlarge:
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I have Black Walnuts here, that in there husks, are the size of hard balls.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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had a big argument with the wife yesterday. she decided that they were getting cold because the wind could blow up through the bottom of the pen. and she wanted to put some hay on the bottom. I let her put a little near the door. wouldn,t you know the little buggers dug into the hay and I did not lose any last night. coincidence ?? I hope so. for my sake ::)
i think the wife might be right i thought about what you said about wire off the ground ..it does allow cold updraft ...try putting hay in a wood box shallow enough for them to nest in i bet you theyll cuddle up warm as toast ..just gotta make sure theyre still getting out to eat and drink thats what we do here for our animals..not that it gets thatt cold but its cold for us lol
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nuts
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nuts
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j45
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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nuts
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j45 s020 no acorns
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hey pleasant lol hows it going :grin:
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hey pleasant lol hows it going :grin:
Still hanging ode.......stiiiiiiiill hanging s020
I trust your BBQ went as planned? Take any pictures?
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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hey pleasant lol hows it going :grin:
Still hanging ode.......stiiiiiiiill hanging s020
I trust your BBQ went as planned? Take any pictures?
Steve wish i did pleasant i need a new camera ...workin on it .. then youll probably get sick of my photography lol i had a great bbq my girl freind came over and we planted some really cool bushes in my yard and edged 1/2 my trees with mondo grass...today we picked up some chaya/aka spinach trees ill be planting them tomorrow...theyre edible ... can you feed quail cooked greens? they have to be cooked 1 minute to remove toxins
Pheasant Hollow Farm
j1 lol i like yer h its cute ...if you dont like me calling you pleasant ill stop ..lol i wouldnt want the other kids 2 pick on you ! lol lol
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hey pleasant lol hows it going :grin:
Still hanging ode.......stiiiiiiiill hanging s020
I trust your BBQ went as planned? Take any pictures?
Steve Pheasant Hollow Farm
wish i did pleasant i need a new camera ...workin on it .. then youll probably get sick of my photography lol i had a great bbq my girl freind came over and we planted some really cool bushes in my yard and edged 1/2 my trees with mondo grass...today we picked up some chaya/aka spinach trees ill be planting them tomorrow...theyre edible ... can you feed quail cooked greens? they have to be cooked 1 minute to remove toxins
j1 lol i like yer h its cute ...if you dont like me calling you pleasant ill stop ..lol i wouldnt want the other kids 2 pick on you ! lol lol
ode,
Like I stated earlier,, you can call me anything you want, just don't call me late for supper. s020
Your can you feed quail cooked greens?
I have now idea, I just raise pheasants, and I will put cooked left over bake potatoes in the pen or left over corn on the cob and they will eat it.
What's wrong with your camera? Get flour dust in it?
Your "then youll probably get sick of my photography lol "
No, not at all.. I enjoy looking at pictures.... I am still waiting to see those famous cookies of yours...... I am begining to think CharlieHorse is right, you just re-package Wal-mart.. s020
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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we'll do pleasant ... ill let you know when its done lol we re havin basketti tonght with crazy bread from little ceasars...! quick question, are bob whites hard 2 raise ? im looking for an easy city chicken...lol something more exciting than coturnix you know more color but easy to raise .. j2
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If you are looking for easy then you are on the wrong Forum....
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we'll do pleasant ... ill let you know when its done lol we re havin basketti tonght with crazy bread from little ceasars...! quick question, are bob whites hard 2 raise ? im looking for an easy city chicken...lol something more exciting than coturnix you know more color but easy to raise .. j2
Ode,
Who are these quick questions thrown at? If they were to me, once again, Your
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can you feed quail cooked greens?
My Reply:(PHF)
I have now idea, I just raise pheasants,
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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I do not know why you would want to feed quail cooked greens. Just feed them fresh ones without cooking. They are better for the birds and you do not have a pile of crap in there cage. My birds get fresh greens 2 to 3 times a week fresh from my garden..They really go for them. Give the cooked ones to your grand children..
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I do not know why you would want to feed quail cooked greens. Just feed them fresh ones without cooking. They are better for the birds and you do not have a pile of crap in there cage. My birds get fresh greens 2 to 3 times a week fresh from my garden..They really go for them. Give the cooked ones to your grand children..
:wink: thanks for the advice theres just one tensie problem ..the greens are from a spinach tree aka chaya...what i read you have to cook them 1 minute to remove toxins dont know if theyre toxic to birds uncooked... thats why i was wondering if itd be a problem to feed them to them cooked ...they are 6 percent protien and have lots of vitamins and minerals...besides being free food... thanks slider oh and thanks pleasant i didnt know if you knew anything about quail j2
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Sounds like Poke Salad...leave it alone...
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I do not know why you would want to feed quail cooked greens. Just feed them fresh ones without cooking. They are better for the birds and you do not have a pile of crap in there cage. My birds get fresh greens 2 to 3 times a week fresh from my garden..They really go for them. Give the cooked ones to your grand children..
:wink: thanks for the advice theres just one tensie problem ..the greens are from a spinach tree aka chaya...what i read you have to cook them 1 minute to remove toxins dont know if theyre toxic to birds uncooked... thats why i was wondering if itd be a problem to feed them to them cooked ...they are 6 percent protien and have lots of vitamins and minerals...besides being free food... thanks slider oh and thanks pleasant i didnt know if you knew anything about quail j2
Just the basics my dear, just the basics..
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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My Bobs got treated with spinach and lettuce in jan and feb, talking all the time as they ate them.
My Button Quail did the same thing.
They also liked raw butternut or acorn squash. A 3-4" piece of that did them, they'd eat a good sized handful of the greens per pair or trio.
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How about the inside of pumpkins? The pheasants seem to like them. I know they (pheasants) will eat cucumbers given the chance. They don't like cabbage or lettuce. Naturally, they go crazy for Fresh Picked corn on the cob.
They (pheasants) will eat the Black Walnut leaves that have turned color during the fall along with the Maple leaves. They will also eat grass if it is put in the pen as sod, but fresh grass clipping they won't bother with.
They won't bother with the apples, orange, or any black or red rasberries either.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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Quail also like bread. I let it sit out for a day before I feed it. And they (quail) really like watermelon and other water base fruits..and they better like milo because I just bought 1 ton of it.. s020
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Quail also like bread. I let it sit out for a day before I feed it. And they (quail) really like watermelon and other water base fruits..and they better like milo because I just bought 1 ton of it.. s020
lol you better hope they do if not let me know ill look up a recipe for you cause you might be the one eaten it lol let me know j45
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Quail like Milo alot. It is just about their favorite grain..that is why I buy so much of it when I can find it. It is getting scarce around here most of the farmers have gone to corn.
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how bout cooked rice is it to low of nutritien? i know its cheap ..i suppliment my buttons with rice and eggs ,bothe cooked of course a26 they really pig the stuff down
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I have been trying different wild bird seed mixes to supplement the quails food and finally seem to have found the answer. I found a mix called songbird. they love it I cannot seem to keep enough of it in front of them . and have not lost a bird in the last two weeks. knock on wood. all back to normal for now.
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I have been trying different wild bird seed mixes to supplement the quails food and finally seem to have found the answer. I found a mix called songbird. they love it I cannot seem to keep enough of it in front of them . and have not lost a bird in the last two weeks. knock on wood. all back to normal for now.
birddog,
Glad to hear that you haven't had anymore losses.
What was the content difference in the wild bird food to the one you are now using?
The basic seed mix blends are all the same, containing milo, millet, cracked corn, blackoil sunflower. What are they eating more of in this bag then the other one.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm
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Steve I do not know why they like the new stuff so much? it is just as you say for ingredients. although it almost looks like the sunflower seeds are smaller and broken up more than the other stuff and there is more corn in it. as for what ingredient they like? hard to tell they clean the tray every day and they are not wasting much at all I checked that after the first day when I found the tray empty. there was very little on the ground . they go for the wild bird feed before the gamebird feed. I thought about switching suppliers of the gamebird feed but I have two pair of bobs that I have had for over a year they and the Ringnecks are doing great. ??? I,m just happy all is well again.
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The bird feed is ok for a supplement, but shouldn't be used as the sole source of food. Not enough protein, etc. They'll fill up on that feed and not eat any of the gamebird feed. You probably already knew that. :grin: But some may not. ^-^
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The bird feed is ok for a supplement, but shouldn't be used as the sole source of food. Not enough protein, etc. They'll fill up on that feed and not eat any of the gamebird feed. You probably already knew that. :grin: But some may not. ^-^
Exactly what CharlieHorse has stated, and birddog, as I see in your stated post: although it almost looks like the sunflower seeds are smaller and broken up more than the other stuff and there is more corn in it.
These are the basic sweet treats. Just like a child likes to eat candy and icecream before dinner, and then says they are no longer hungry.
Mix the bird seed with your regular feed. When they finished the treats, they have no other choice but to eat the regular feed. They won't starve themselves, and don't give in to the treats until all the remaining food is gone.
Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm